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New hybrid battery

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by ruidboi, Sep 1, 2014.

  1. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Amazon.com: high voltage gloves

    Regarding the damaged battery cable, since you can't order parts from US Toyota dealers, and I assume that the Prius is not sold in your locale, maybe you could take the burnt cable to a local electrician or stereo shop and have a cable fabricated with the proper connectors for you? Just let the shop know that the cable insulation has to handle ~250V and the same wire gauge size must be maintained.

    The battery can deliver 80A or more for very brief periods. Since it appears that your torque wrench shorted to a nearby module, at minimum two modules were shorted. So that is ~14V x 80A = 1,120W. That is a lot of available power and it is not surprising that your wrench was damaged.

    Regarding DTC P3030, since the busbars are new then I assume that the sense wires are also new. So if you don't find a problem with the sense wires or the associated wiring harness connector, it is possible that the traction battery ECU has a problem and also needs to be replaced. If you are careful, you can measure the module voltages at the wiring harness connector which plugs into the traction battery ECU and make sure each wire is providing an appropriate voltage signal.

    You potentially can buy a used traction battery ECU on eBay if you can convince the seller to ship outside the US - many US sellers don't want the perceived risk associated with shipping items outside the country.
    prius traction battery ECU | eBay
     
    #81 Patrick Wong, Oct 16, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  2. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    Few things here to fix the situation......
    1) Get yourself a good multimeter asap (even a low end Fluke or similar should be good, I used this one)
    VC97 Multimeter AC DC Voltage Current Capacitance Resistance Tester vs Fluke 15B | eBay
    2) If you have a Windows based laptop, get mini VCI (will allow you to watch the battery in use realtime)
    Mini 16 Pin VCI Tis Techstream Diagnostic Scanner for Toyota Car Cable DH | eBay
    3) Get a new battery harness (I would not redo the old one, consider it toast!!!)
    2007 Toyota Prius Hybrid Battery Wire Harness HV 04 05 06 07 08 09 | eBay
    4) You might consider a new ECU and have it on hand in case that is the cause of your P3030 (you can always resell it if not needed)
    2004 09 Toyota Prius Battery Control Module ECU | eBay

    Make yourself a balancing harness (http://priuschat.com/attachments/img_1571-jpg.64248/) and to be sure all the module voltages have been properly equalized before install. Then install the replacement harness and ECU (if you go that route) and reinstall in back in the vehicle. Use the mini VCI on your test drive to verify all is working as it should be and if not that will help you identify where any issue might be.

    This should solve your issue for good.
     
    #82 MTL_hihy, Oct 17, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
    telmo744 and Robert Holt like this.
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Regarding 3) above, that is a great photo on eBay and shows the high voltage safety problem clearly. Note the second busbar assembly which is in two pieces, below the first continuous busbar. Also note the cabling to the interlock switch which is below the second busbar.

    Assume the continuous busbar is correctly installed. 18 modules are connected together with the longer portion of the second bus bar, and 8 modules are connected together with the shorter portion. Then the cable to the interlock switch connects those two assemblies. The result is that you have 19 modules on one side of the interlock switch and 9 modules on the other side. Therefore, when the interlock switch is opened up, you still have up to 137VDC (19 modules x 7.2V nominal voltage per module) of high voltage present. That voltage combined with the ability of the battery to deliver 80A peak current can easily kill you if you, for example, were to allow that voltage to pass through your heart.
     
  4. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    The bus bars arent solid, they only connect the battery in series (ie one battery to the next in alternating fashion, pos-neg-pos-neg-etc) but that doesn't stop it from being at a potentially dangerous voltage until you remove those bus bars. Series adds the voltage and parallel adds the amperage so this is why it's ok to touch the modules with your bare hands while balancing (parallel) but never with the bus bars on (series). Either way good point Patrick and this is why people should always ensure they check voltage with a multimeter before touching anything (even the battery pack case!)

    You can see the interlock about 1/3 the way over from the left on the battery in this pic.
    [​IMG]
     
    #84 MTL_hihy, Oct 17, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I agree. When I characterized the first busbar as "continuous" I meant that the assembly is one physical part. That busbar contains multiple short lengths of metal which connect the positive terminal of one module to the negative terminal of the next.
     
    #85 Patrick Wong, Oct 17, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  6. Eddy2014

    Eddy2014 Junior Member

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    Thanks, then would you recommend replacing the faulty Gen 1 modules ? Do you have some good Gen 1 modules ? An idea about the unit price ?
    Thanks,
    Eddy2014.
     
  7. ruidboi

    ruidboi Junior Member

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    Are these gloves good? How do I measure module voltage at the harness ? I think I should put one of the contacts in the harness but where should I put the other contacts?
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    A voltmeter has two test leads. Attach one test lead to one end of the modules. You could, for example, start at the end closest to the traction battery ECU. The other test lead can probe the harness connector contacts.

    Does each sense wire have a different color insulation? If yes, you hopefully can trace a given wire to its contact in the wiring harness connector.

    Starting from one end, you would expect each module pair to show ~14V. So the first pair would register a voltmeter reading of ~14V. The second pair would show a voltmeter reading of ~28V, the third pair would show ~42V, etc. This is because all of the modules are wired in series.

    When you get to the point where the traction battery interlock switch is wired, then obviously you will no longer measure voltage due to the open circuit - assuming the interlock had been removed.

    Therefore, move the voltmeter test lead from the end closest to the traction battery ECU; to the other end of the modules which is farthest away from the traction battery ECU; and test the sense wires from that end up to the point where the interlock switch is located.

    Since all this wiring is new, you will probably find the sense wires are good (as long as they were not scorched by your little accident with the torque wrench) and that the traction battery ECU likely needs to be replaced.
     
  9. ruidboi

    ruidboi Junior Member

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    OK Sounds good. I will try that tonight. One question though. Should the Harness connector be connected to the ECU when taking voltage readings or disconnected? Forgive if its a stupid question.
    b
     
  10. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    Voltage checks on the battery should be done with nothing else plugged into any of the controls (ie unplug ECU, sensors, relay, etc).
    Multimeter on DC voltage, put one lead on the + side of the module and the other on the - side and verify working voltage.
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Disconnected.

    To reiterate, the purpose of taking voltage readings at the wiring harness connector is to verify the sense wires are good. If you wish to measure module voltages to verify the modules remain properly balanced, it is much easier to measure the voltages directly at the modules themselves.
     
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  12. ruidboi

    ruidboi Junior Member

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    Here are the results of the voltages taken from the wire harness
    From the ECU side
    15.82 V
    31.6 V
    47.4 V
    63.2 V

    From the other end
    142.2 V
    126 V
    110.6 V
    94.8 V
    79 V
    63.2 V
    47.4 V
    31.6 V
    15.82 V

    These results indicate that the sense wires are good right?
     
  13. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Voltages indicate either a connection, or no-connection. Amperage indicates the quality of the connection.
     
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes. Time to look for a replacement traction battery ECU.
     
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  15. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    I agree the ECU is likely bad (or has bad internal connector) but you should replace the harness you damaged as well (should come with sensing wires too).
     
  16. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Anyone can be a master mechanic, just keep replacing parts until it runs.

    Its not like its your own money.
     
  17. ruidboi

    ruidboi Junior Member

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    Ok I replaced the main battery cable and the ECU and it seems to be working great now. I test drove it for 60 miles and it's running great. I hope this repair will last.

    Thanks everyone for your wonderful help and suggestions.
     
    uart likes this.
  18. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Good result ruidboi. Lots of persistence, one near death experience (well for your torque wrench anyway ;)), but thankfully it finally worked out for you. :)
     
  19. MTL_hihy

    MTL_hihy Active Member

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    Good job bud, glad you got it fixed and it just shows that persistence does pay off in the end.
    I still suggest to get yourself a mini VCI setup so you can actually watch how the battery is working in realtime.
     
  20. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Brainstorming is a pretty good tool sometimes.