1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Mini MPG Updates and future Munroney

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Oct 24, 2014.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,068
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Source: Mini Latest to Admit Mislabeling MPG | TheDetroitBureau.com

    Ok, so another automaker has overstated their numbers:
    But the interesting points are embedded in the article:
    Of all the EPA testing protocols, the "Coast-Down" is the most trustable set of metrics. I use it because it can predict the power needed over all speed ranges. It does nothing for the engine thermodynamic efficiency at different power settings but the "Coast-Down" drag metrics are half of the battle.

    I would like to see a % loss based upon the warm-up interval.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Oct 24, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
  2. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    3,626
    1,623
    0
    Location:
    Sanford, NC
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited
    The EPA tests on a Prius v match my experience within a rounding error so I have the impression the current hybrid tests can't be so bad. I don't expect my driving to match their tests, just that the EPA numbers give me an approximation and something to compare to other cars with. That presupposes that all manufacturers are running honest tests, of course. Or that EPA is checking enough to keep them honest. Which of course means adequate EPA funding.
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    And ... what about it ?
    Moreover, even if that test is wrong or can be gamed the manufacturer would not have to restate results so long as they followed the protocol. Leave it to some crappy media called 'Detroit*' to use BMW error/fraud to cast FUD on the EPA.

    Anything informative known ?

    Addendum #1: Is the coast-down on rollers or a road ?
    Addendum #2: EPA announcement. It is interesting to read that that largest (in percentage) correction was a highway result for a manual transmission. That was corrected down 10.5%, while the city results were in the 3% corrected down range. IIRC the Ford story followed a similar pattern of highway being further off than city. Tempting to speculate that the manufacturers are extrapolating from a low speed coast-down while the EPA is doing the actual high-speed coast-down.
     
    #3 SageBrush, Oct 25, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2014
  4. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    754
    502
    0
    Location:
    WI
    Vehicle:
    2017 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm actually getting better numbers on my prius than the EPA's listed rating. Granted, I do some light hypermiling, but even when I drive it somewhat aggressively, or "normal", I still average about 52 mpg combined city/highway. And this is with the 17 inch wheels on the trim five liftback, so I'd imagine with 15 inch wheels it would be 2-4 mpg more.

    On the Prius c I was getting 53 mpg without special driving, and 58 with some hypermiling.

    I do wonder what kind of new mpg the other carmakers are going to get when they revise the tests. Remember how the Ford C-max mileage got downgraded twice? I wonder what it's going to look like with the new tests. Toyota will probably be okay with most of their vehicles in the new mpg tests, unless the EPA assumes everyone has a lead foot and does jackrabbit starts from every stop light/sign they cross.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,597
    11,224
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The EPA is actually the opposite of a lead foot. The two main tests haven't changed in decades. Their unaltered results are used for CAFE, and Prius gets 70something on that.

    Only one of the new tests is actually new. The other two are one of the old ones done in the cold or heat with AC running. Then these the results are used to come up with a factor to modify the main two. But running 5 tests can be to 'burdensome', so the automakers are allowed to use mathematical models instead of actually running the 3 new tests.
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,068
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    All I want is mph v MPG curve and a warm-up graph.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,597
    11,224
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    It would be nice to have in the manual. Tesla seems to be the only one to get close by an app on their site.
     
    austingreen likes this.
  8. Cadenza

    Cadenza Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    109
    28
    0
    Location:
    LALA Land
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    New MINI owners have been reporting low 40s on the highway, combined is mid 30s. This is for the regular Cooper (3-cyl 1.5L turbocharged) with a manual gearbox. Both regular and S versions are now turbocharged so gas mileage can go south very quickly.

    Test drove one last weekend. More comfy than my '06 Cooper S but less edgy. It's my GRIN MACHINE.
     
  9. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    3,159
    988
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    45+ mpg is the only thing that makes me grin. :)
     
  10. Cadenza

    Cadenza Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    109
    28
    0
    Location:
    LALA Land
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't grin at 45+ mpg, my wallet does though. Wish Toyota make a sporty hybrid.
     
  11. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    3,159
    988
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    To me, if it doesn't get at least 40+ mpg in the city, its a low performance vehicle. High performance is 50+mpg city. The Prius meets and exceeds my definition of high performance. My eBike far exceeds that. Going 0-60 in no time flat is great to talk about but, you can only go as fast as the person in front of you. In Bowling Green, KY, that's usually someone going slow. :)
     
  12. Cadenza

    Cadenza Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    109
    28
    0
    Location:
    LALA Land
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Ah... I see we're talking about different things. For me, the Prius is not high performance. It's energy efficient.

    This is performance... especially at 2:55 forward... the wife didn't know the camera was on.

     
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,527
    4,057
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Yep tesla has a nice tool on the website, that perhaps all efficient cars should have, but most car companies including toyota don't want us to have that data, becuase it is worse than most people expect. Kudo's to bob for doing a chart for the gen II prius.
     
    #13 austingreen, Oct 29, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014