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REPLACE GEN 1 WITH GEN 2 BATTERY?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by noahprius, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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    Hello everyone. Here is a little background before I go into my issue...........

    I bought my first ever Prius exactly 2 years ago. On October of 2012, I bought......yes, a 2002 Prius with leather seats, at 119k miles, with a "Main battery error". Knowing this, I got an estimate for around $1000 to replace up to 4 cells from a local Hybrid specialty mechanic. So I bought the car for $4000, and spent $1100 to replace 3 cells, and to also replace the bus bar as well. Total $5100 for the leather Gen 1 Prius. Was very happy to have found a trustworthy mechanic who even sent pics of the entire process, and even gave me the Toyota dealer receipt for the bus bar, and only needing to replace 3 cells. He could have easily told me I needed to replace 10 cells.

    Here we are, in October 2014, 2 years later, and I got an error code P3006, "uneven voltage". I took it in to an Autozone who found that error code. They then reset the computer, and the error code went away for a full day, until it came back today. I am trying to weigh my options here. Being that there is a "fixed charge" just to remove the seats, battery, and all just to diagnose it, and considering the majority of the cells are all 12 years old, except for maybe the 3 that were replaced 3 2 years ago........Should I look into a Gen 2 battery?????

    I have heard that some folks have just replaced the gen 1 cells with gen 2 cells, and have actually achieved better MPG. I don't have the money to buy another car, so I might have to bite the bullet. My concern is if I go the cheap route, and replace one or two cells again for $500 to $800, that I might just be revisiting this issue again in 6 months, a year, or 18 month, who knows!

    I was also told by my hybrid mechanic, that Gen 1 batteries are becoming a rare find, and I might be able to sell the cells that test with good voltage.

    I am pleading for help, and guidance to the "experts" here. Can anyone offer up some suggestions?
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Suggestions:
    • Get a Prius-aware scanner so you can share all of the vehicle metrics. MiniVCI is a good start if you have a Windows laptop (see the threads.)
    • Identify your City/State so we can recommend additional, 3d party technologists.
    • Read the 'sticky' about who should own one of these Prius and do a self-assessment of your goals and objectives.
    You are in one of the best places to get technical help and advice about this model Prius. We'll help as much as we can but you'll have to supply the 'hands on' and eyes. We can't do it without specific technical details.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    You will be playing whack a mole with your battery pack if you go the module replacement route. If you need Gen 1 modules, contact PC member ericbecky. If I still had my Gen I, I would be replacing modules and not the whole pack. Of course that would be DIY.

    One thing you could try is to order a Hybrid charger from PC SHOP. The one listed on there is for a Gen II but, ericbecky can assist you with that as well. Since you only have a 3006, you might be the perfect candidate for the charger.
     
    #3 usnavystgc, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  4. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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    So when you refer to PC SHOP, is that a member here, or is it a website?
     
  5. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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    .....and Bob, thanks for the info, I am gathering some info back to you!
     
  6. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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    ........would also be curious to know of anyone that has successfully replaced Gen 1 battery with Gen 2 out there, or for that matter, anyone who did, and ended up like usnavystgc mentioned, playing whack-a-mole.
     
  7. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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  8. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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    Thanks Bob! It give me something to start with.


    I will go over all your 3 points here........


    Point one: Is this what you mean? Mini VCI OBD2 Diagnostic Tool Scanner for Toyota Prius C V PHV RAV4 EV Rush T100 | eBay


    Point two: Fort Myers, Florida


    Point three: I read your post Who should and should NOT buy a 2001-03 Prius | PriusChat Very informative. I will say, I fit 75% of the description of who should buy. Our climate is very flat, and hot from may through October, with a very small taste of Fall-like, and Spring-like weather between November through April. Rarely do temps drop below 45 degrees here, except for maybe a grand total of 15 to 25 days a calendar year. I am pretty "hands on" in the sense that I have repaired my own dryer, from watching a youtube video, installed ceiling fans, and changed a radiator. But I am no expert! I also have a very close friend of mine who is a good mechanic, but has always been afraid of touching these cars. But with some convincing, we can probably tackle on the biggest challenges, if I give him an incentive, if you know what I mean. ($$$$$) I still would like to see any local trustworthy guys. The guy I used 2 years ago is 128 miles away, (and he was very good) but I had to have the car towed to him, then rented a car to pick it up, dropped off rental, and drove Prius back. I also have an ample, two car garage to work in, to go back to your post of who should buy a 2001-2003 Prius. I also would rather spend hundreds, or even a thousand or so, than to drop a $2000 down payment, and get on a 3 to 5 year slavery of payments, when for the last 2 years, this car has given me ZERO PROBLEMS, just routine maintenance. I am also AVERAGING around 42-44 MPG between city and highway, although 80% of our drivetime is city.


    Bob, hope this helps, and let me know if Point #1 is the scanner you were referring to.
     
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  9. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Numerous people have done it. There are numerous threads on here about it. The problem is, you need two Gen II packs because the Gen I uses 38 modules as opposed to the 28 modules in a Gen II. It gets expensive.
     
  10. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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    Good point. Reason for my intrigue is ........

    A) I have heard you get better MPG on second Gen cells

    B) A 12 year old battery might also give u more headaches down the road, as opposed to a Gen 2 2008 or 2009 battery, for example, but I don't know.

    C) Resale battery value on those "rare" gen 1 cells.

    I also looked at the charger. Wow. I guess it would help with the P3006 code, but man they are pricey! Wondering if that alone would take care of that code issue, without having to dismantle the entire rear of the car.
     
  11. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Well, you have to dismantle the entire rear of the car to "hook up" the grid charger. I do think the grid charger would buy you some time but, I don't know how permanent of a solution that is (although with only a 3006, it may very well be what you need). I can say that once you have one, you can always use it in the future or if you don't need or want it anymore, recoup some of your money by selling it on PC. I think the grid charger would be very useful if you wanted to replace modules in the future. Since you only have a p3006, that means your modules are not bad so you don't really know which one to replace.

    A) MPG should not increase with Gen II modules, both are 6.5ah. I think when you read that, its the placebo effect. Hard data is needed not "I think I'm getting better mpg" :)
    B) As for 12 yr old battery giving you headaches, likely but, grid charger should help if not alleviate all (I would recommend talking to ericbecky, he will shoot you straight on this)
    C) They are only worth what someone will pay. There is not a big market for them and they are not that rare (although rarer then Gen II modules). You have to remember that every Gen I sold has 38 of them and every Gen II sold only has 28 Gen II modules
     
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  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Ok, you've found the right threads and you are more than qualified to self-maintenance:
    1. Your ears (Ok, eyes) work!
    2. Your brain works!
    When a traction battery first starts to fail, you have anything from a couple of weeks to a couple of months before it is going to stop the car. To stretch the interval, you want to keep the traction battery as cool as possible (i.e., park so trunk avoids direct sunlight.) HEAT is the enemy, so keep speeds modest, under 65 mph, while gathering resources:
    1. miniVCI - this is the current best answer if you have a laptop with the Windows version. Scangauge II is the second best but can also be used for efficient driving. Just the Scangauge II take more effort (see threads.)
    2. shop manuals (optional) - they come up on eBay from time to time. Avoid the pirated CDs as their quality is mixed. There is also a tech info service that has a daily rate. The folks here will be more than willing to give you pointers and posts describing what is involved.
    You might update your profile with your location as this makes sure everyone will easily know where you're coming from. Not to worry, this will work!

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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  14. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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  15. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The original miniVCI was made by Xhorse. Then Xhorse got pissed because some other Chinese folks pirated their work and shutdown their firmware update page. So I would ask the seller:
    • Tell them you want to use it on a 2001-03 Prius: 16 pin OBD, ISO-9141.
    • What version of firmware?
    • What is the return policy?
    Mr. Google returned this link: Aliexpress.com : Buy 2014 Original Xhorse MINI VCI FOR TOYOTA Lexus TIS Techstream V9.10.038 Toyota Diagnostic Cable,free shipping from Reliable mini vci suppliers on ChiShengOBD

    The firmware is in the miniVCI and I've had two versions. The older one worked fine on the 2001-03 but not the 2010. The later one works on both of our Prius. This vendor appears to have a clue.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #16 bwilson4web, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  17. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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    Good link Bob. The only thing is all Google results for the 2014 xhorse point to all destinations coming from China, and shipping between 14-22 days. I searched high and low on Google, and can't find a seller in the USA.
     
  18. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    My experience is that they are all the same. Order the one from NY with confidence.
     
  19. noahprius

    noahprius Junior Member

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    Update:
    Took the car to Advanced Auto Parts to check the "check engine" light, just to get a second perspective besides Autozone, and just to make 100% sure. The verdict was confirmed, and got the P3006 error code. So the guy reset it for me, and code went away again.Drove for a good 15-20 minutes in the city, and the day and tv screen lit up like crazy again. Anyway, I went ahead and ordered the wire with CD, and will wait a few days until I receive it. So thanks to everyone on here for the input. It has been really helpful. Once I receive the items, I will look for guidance here again! I guess I will need some "hand holding" to see what the next steps here on out. Any veteran/moderator on here that knows of local recommended hybrid techs near my area? I attached a picture of my dash.
     

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    #19 noahprius, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    What is the wire gauge at the connector?

    Bob Wilson