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Brake Caliper Slide Pin Cleaning and Lubrication

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Den49, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. our1vue

    our1vue Member

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    While I was putting on the summer tires today (hope we don't get any more snow :), I lubed the pins on all 4 wheels. Since I had bought the brake tool, my pistons didn't spin and I didn't need to use it (go figure). I disconnected the
    12V battery and waited overnight for the pressure to bleed off, so maybe that is why it didn't move. Well I'll have the tool when the pads need replacing.
    Mendel,
    That brake doc you appended was excellent ! I wondered how that worked.
     
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Excellent! And I guess no warning lights either.

    The Prius brakes seem to last a long time, with the aggressive regen braking, but they're not immortal. After 3.5 year and 43000 km's (pretty low mileage, I know), the majority of the pads had 7.5~ remaining thickness. One corner on the rear was a mm less. With new thickness 10mm on the fronts and 9.5 on the back, with another 3 year and similar km's it'll be getting close to pad replacement time.

    I'd never pulled out the pins on previous vehicles, am glad for this thread on the subject. Also checked the caliper pins on a previous Civic Hybrid that's still in the family, in the process of taking off it's snows. They were long overdue, getting tough to remove.
     
  3. sprtent

    sprtent Member

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    priusbrake2.JPG priusbrake1.JPG It was time to rotate the tires so I thought I would do a lube job while the wheels are out. My 2010 is at 55k miles so pads still look good. Just want to share with everyone how I did mine and final result.

    The difference was that I did not disconnect the battery. I am a firm believer in the idea that if I don't open the driver door at ANYTIME after opening any of the 4 calipers, I would be okay. I basically cleaned all the parts with brake cleaner, lubed between the shims, back of last shims, between all the clips and caliper brackets, and between the clips and ends of pads. I did not have to compress the caliper pistons back in.

    Overall result is wonderful. No codes, and braking "feels" smoother. Here are couple of pics :)
     
  4. NutzAboutBolts

    NutzAboutBolts Senior Member

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    lol the blue tape by the driver door...
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Similar to the blue tape?

    When Apollo 13 was limping back from the moon, an aborted mission following an explosion that almost killed them all, well at least according to the Hollywood version, one guy was in the main unit, while the other two were in the lunar lander, doing some last minute stuff before they would get back into the main unit, and disconnect the lunar lander.

    When they floated back into the main unit one of them noticed a slip of paper taped over a switch, with the word "NO" on it. He asked the main unit guy: what's with this paper? And the explanation: if I pushed this switch it would disconnect the lunar lander, with you guys in it.

    Seems about on par.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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  7. Den49

    Den49 Member

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    Previously I had not measured brake pad thickness because they all looked good visually. During my recent engine oil change at 70,015 miles I measured them as best I could with a scale and caliper. Compared with the 10 mm front and 9.5 mm thickness of new pads, the inboard and outboard pads on all four wheels were consistently 7.0 to 7.5 mm. I think this shows that with good maintenance and normal driving G3 Prius brake pads are capable of lasting well past 150,000 and probably 200,000 miles. I forgot to measure the rotors but they looked good and will measure them next oil change.
     
  8. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Thanks for the writeup. This encouraged me to do inspection of my prius brakes. The weird thing is, I did countless brakes on regular cars and yet,I felt uneasy about working on a hybrid car.

    My car has 44,000 miles (at least 30,000 of them city driving) and 50 months.

    My finding were quite different: uneven pad wear and stuck front slide pins even at that low miles. I'll post my findings and pictures in a separate thread.

    Here it it:
    Breaks inspection: my observations and surprises. | PriusChat
     
    #48 Former Member 68813, Nov 30, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  9. unigeezer

    unigeezer Member

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    Why even do this since it's not even mentioned in the owner's manual for periodic servicing? (Unless I missed it) All I could for brakes was:
    <<Inspect: Brake lines and hoses Brake linings/drums and brake pads/discs.>>

    Although not mentioned would that include inspection of the slide pins?

    Is it common for the slide pins to dry out and cause brake issues? My 2011 has only 32k miles, but should I be worried that the slide pins might be in dire need of cleaning/lubing?
     
  10. Den49

    Den49 Member

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    Servicing the brakes is a beneficial routine service that prevents the pads from dragging/seizing and causing premature brake failure. It significantly extends the service life of brake pads and rotors and maintains optimum brake function. Most people don't do this service because: they don't understand the importance of brake maintenance, don't care, don't plan to keep the car long term, don't DIY and/or don't want to pay to have it done, etc.

    Cleaning and lubricating the slide pins is part of brake service. Time, heat and friction cause the slide pin grease to dry out and fail.

    A typical normal service interval for brake service is 2 to 3 years or 24,000 to 36,000 miles which makes your 2011 Prius with 32,000 miles a good candidate to have it done now. Just make sure whoever does the service does it correctly.
     
  11. unigeezer

    unigeezer Member

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    Brake "service" seems to be synonymous with brake "job" when searching online. Would it be more accurate to call it a brake "inspection"? If so, wouldn't a 4-wheel disc brake inspection still require a near complete disassembly of the brakes in order to simply inspect the condition of the slide pins, especially for the rear brakes?

    The second link is a brake service checklist found online. Are you saying that this should be done every 2-3 years? Seems to me that the major work is taking everything apart to inspect, clean, lube, adjust and reassemble. And this is done every 2 or so years, even though the pads will likely not need replacing?

    While I'm fairly mechanically inclined, I am not a skilled brake expert, especially when it comes to regen brakes, and would not want to risk doing something wrong that could set off a light show of error codes, or lead to possible brake failure while driving! Best to leave to trained Toyota mechanics who do this every day. The main issue there is the cost of having this done so often. Think I will call a few Toyota dealers and ask for their recommendations.

    Cost of Toyota Prius Complete Brake Job - 2013 Cost Estimates

    Servicing Disc Brakes
     
    #51 unigeezer, Mar 29, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the brakes have never been serviced on our '04 with 130,000 miles, or our '08 with 95,000 miles. could it be a gen III thing?
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Our auto history is Honda, and regular brake inspections were the norm. First I went through the dealership, but soon I took over. Sometimes I'd get lazy, disenchanted, hand it back to them. To take off the two calliper mounting bolts, pull the pads out, lube the caliper pins, clean/relube the pad faying surfaces, put everything back togetether, takes about an hour.
     
  14. unigeezer

    unigeezer Member

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    You said "two". Is that an hour for ALL four wheels, including prep time to get it on jacks? And wouldn't you have to bleed the brakes one the calipers are removed? And what about the real possibility of triggering error codes?
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That would be for either the front or rear brakes. The rear 3rd gen disk brakes are a bit tricky, not that much tho. And yeah, budget an hour for a DIY'r, having raise the car by hand, all that entails.

    Disconnecting the caliper does NOT require disconnecting the brake line. You just tie it up, out of the way.

    With the Prius it IS good policy to disconnect 12 volt battery prior to starting, and after reassemble pump the brake pedal to build up pressure, prior to 12 volt battery re hookup and starting the car. With those 2 measures I avoided any warning lights.
     
    #55 Mendel Leisk, Mar 29, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
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  16. unigeezer

    unigeezer Member

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    From all I've been reading, the rear brakes are more prone to wear than the fronts, and are also more time consuming to take apart to inspect, clean and lube slide pins. Wouldn't you want to do the rear brakes as well? Assuming so, what would you estimate time-wise for the rear? If front takes about an hour, the rears could take twice that so about 3 hours total?
     
  17. Den49

    Den49 Member

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    By "brake service" I mean the procedures that have been described by me and others previously in this thread, beginning with post #1, which includes cleaning and renewing the lubrication of the caliper slide pins and surfaces, but not the replacement of pads, rotors and hardware as described in your "Servicing Disc Brakes" article quoted above. The title of that article should be "Replacing Disc Brakes".

    The goal of brake service for the car owner is to extend the life of the brake pads and rotors and avoid a premature, expensive brake replacement. Conversely, the goal of the average dealer is to do as many high profit brake replacement jobs as possible, as opposed to the lower profit brake service. For this reason, it is not unusual for a dealer to tell a customer that brake service is "not required". Also for this reason, it is actually difficult to find a dealer or shop that will do a good brake service at a reasonable price, which is why I and many others do it ourselves. It takes me about two hours to service the brakes on all four wheels.
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Didn't I say an hour, front or back? Take a read thru what you just quoted from me.

    The main thing with rears is you'll likely need to turn the piston to align it's cross pattern with pin on inner side pad pin, but that's not a big deal.
     
  19. Den49

    Den49 Member

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    I think yes. It appears that the Gen III rear disc brakes are more maintenance sensitive than the Gen II rear drum brakes.
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Think I prefer a vehicle with rear drums. Seems like you give up a slight edge in braking performance, but they're very dependable. The main thing is to occasionally lube the shoe to backing plate contact points.

    When the shoes need replacement that's one Ieave to the pros, it's like opening a clock.