1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Newbie with questions re: Gen 1

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by GDonald, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. GDonald

    GDonald Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    48
    2
    0
    Location:
    Vergennes, VT
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Hi—Newbie, here, from west-central Vermont. Just bought a 2002—155K, no known issues, no rust—and I've got some questions for you more savvy folks: 1. How long is too long for a Prius to sit un-driven? (We’d like to use the "alternate winter car" trick to keeping the Prius rust free, driving the Prius only when the roads are dry. BUT I hear dire warnings from some of you about letting the Prius sit. Hence, the question.) 2. Is there any reason not to oil undercoat the car? 3. What mechanic's jobs are okay to have done on the car by the good ol' boys at the local garage? 4. Anybody know independent Prius repair-people in, or close to, the Lake Champlain Valley in Vermont?
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    1. The 12 volt battery would need to be on a battery tender if over 2 weeks dormant, the Big battery is good for 2 months.
    3. Most maintenance is the same as a 'normal' car. There are two coolant systems and the brakes are too tricky for GOBs.
     
    GDonald likes this.
  3. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    3,159
    988
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    There is no reason not to oil undercoat your car.

    I have found that most maintenance on the Gen I is very simple but, the more you get to know these cars, the better equipped you are to maintain them. The Gen I can be finicky and prone to false errors or DTC's. I always said if I get a DTC on my Gen I, the first thing I did was read it, then reset it to see if it comes back consistently (none ever did). Changing oil can be a challenge for any shop on the Gen I because it takes 3.9 Qts. Most shops will go ahead and put in 4.0 and that is overfilling. You don't want that. Most people recommend putting in 3.5 qts (as do I). I personally like doing all of my own maintenance but, that's not everyone's cup of tea. Its hard to say which maintenance can be done by and independent mechanic or the dealer. Both have a reputation of questionable credibility.
     
    GDonald likes this.
  4. GDonald

    GDonald Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    48
    2
    0
    Location:
    Vergennes, VT
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    II

    Thanks for your help. What does "DTC" stand for, and how did you "read" and "reset" your "check engine" message? (I'm a geezer living on fixed income and can't afford expensive toys. I wish I'd read Richard Schumacher's "What Every Newbie Should Know" BEFORE I emptied out the family piggy banks to buy this beautifully engineered, smooth riding machine. But I love it and I'm sticking--or "stuck"?--with it.) Anyhow, if there's an "app" I can load onto my computer, that'd be great. I'm forever running to my friendly neighborhood garage to get a reading with their hand-held computer. About the oil: I read--in this forum--about the need for caution when changing oil. Any other little things like that that'll kill our baby? And thanks again.
     
  5. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    DTC is Diagnostic Trouble Code. (often in the form A0000, where the first digit is alphabetic and the next four are alphanumeric)
    Many Auto Parts Stores have a code scanner you can use for free. The most common code scanner bought here on Prius chat is the ScangaugeII which is optimized for a hybrid more that the stores are. (the stores may read engine codes but miss battery codes)
     
    GDonald likes this.
  6. GDonald

    GDonald Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    48
    2
    0
    Location:
    Vergennes, VT
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Thanks JimboPalmer. I was working on a reply to that very first response to my "new thread" when I realized it was from you also. But, I hear by the town bells that it's noon--time to pick up the kid from pre-school--so the reply will have to wait. Later. Thanks again.
     
  7. GDonald

    GDonald Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    48
    2
    0
    Location:
    Vergennes, VT
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    II
    So, back to it with follow-up questions:
    1. What's a GOB? The same as my "FNG"--a Friendly Neighborhood Garage? Or--just realized, it's gotta be--a "good 'ol boy"?
    2. What type of system would I look for as a "small battery tender?" (Though I doubt there'll ever be a two-week downtime.)
    3. How do you test the "big battery"? (A friend says, "Drive it to the top of Bolton Mtn. and come down: If it crosses Bolton Flats without the gas engine kicking in, the big battery's fine." I suspect there are more correct ways of testing.)
    4. Is there anything a GOB--or FNG--would find tricky about these jobs on a Prius: replace engine air filter? replace engine coolant? replace spark plugs?
    Thanks.
     
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    Air Filter is dead easy.
    coolant (both engine and inverter) is hard to get the air bubbles out.
    Oddly, you wind up removing the windshield wipers and the tray under them to get to the spark plugs.

    But none of that is really because it is a hybrid.
     
    GDonald likes this.
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,064
    14,969
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I was afraid I'd have to do that, but nothing of the sort. Spark plug access turned out to be dead easy with a spark plug socket on a 6" extension.

    I even managed the valve cover loose once without touching the wipers and cowl. (That was after doing it once the long way where I could see what I was doing.)

    Even that was the long way, because I think I did that when I was removing the fuel injectors, which the manual says the valve cover has to be loose for. Then I noticed another poster didn't read that part, went ahead and replaced the injectors without touching the valve cover, and had no trouble.

    GOBs or FNGs would want to know that there are two totally separate coolant loops to do, if changing coolant ... that the brakes are pretty easy to work on unless the M/C or actuator need bled, which the dealer scantool has a special command for ... that the brake accumulator can store a lot of brake force even when everything is off ... and in general, when the key isn't off, how many things can come to life unexpectedly despite seeming to be off.

    Oh yeah, also that orange parts are high voltage, and the coolant and tranny oil are both pink, and have drain plugs the same shape and pretty close together. Mixing those up could make a mess. :)

    -Chap
     
    GDonald likes this.
  10. dabard051

    dabard051 Tinkerer-in-Charge

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    232
    84
    0
    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    My prius gets driven year-round... the hybrid and conventional batteries will do better with regular exercise, particularly now that they are, ummm, in the senior category. If the 12v battery is original, give serious thought to a preventive replacement.

    DIY: The air filter should be changed regularly, and the air intake to the fuel injection port (under the air filter) gets cranky if it's not kept clean.; liberal use of carburettor cleaner is recommended.

    My nose gets cranky if the cabin air filter (located inside the glove box; you have to remove two stiff plastic "stoppers" on either side of the glove box to get access) is not cleaned, and it accumulates a surprising amount of debris in a month. If it's original, it can be cleared with a vacuum cleaner, then washed with dish soap and running water, air dried, and be good as new.

    If you do take it to a garage, request they use highest-quality parts (iridium spark plugs, etc) so you don't have to bring the vehicle back anywhere near as quickly...

    A long-sitting prius may have problems with ethanol and water absorbtion in the fuel. That's not a problem unique to priuses, but certainly something of which to be aware. I don't have experience with fuel stabilizers, but I have heard that that chemistry can be helpful.
     
    GDonald likes this.
  11. GDonald

    GDonald Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    48
    2
    0
    Location:
    Vergennes, VT
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Thanks for all the feedback folks. Here's the worry-of-the-day: I pulled over to make a telephone call, and, as soon as I put the car in park, the dash lit up: a triangle with exclamation point; the letters "PS"; a car outline split by exclamation point; and the check engine light came on. I turned the car off and immediately started it again—same display. Per the manual, I called a dealer for instructions and made an appointment to have diagnostics run on the big battery this Friday, but, as I was talking to the service-guy, I started the car again, and, this time, only the check engine light went on. I drove the car home and haven't driven it since. Kind of afraid to; don't want to do any damage, and I've got so many questions, mostly about the big battery (it's at 157,000)—testing and repair or replacement—and about the frequency of —and danger of ignoring—false DTC's.
     
    C Clay likes this.
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,064
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    An initial fault will show the error lights. But upon the third start AND the fault has cleared, the lights go away. The fault codes are still retained so a Toyota or miniVCI can still read them. Consider it 'a warning' and plan to have it investigated and resolved.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #12 bwilson4web, Nov 24, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
    GDonald likes this.
  13. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    480
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    With the regard to leaving your car un-driven for too long, the main hybrid battery is a big concern. Considering the age of the car, it's hard to say how long it would take for it to discharge itself to an unrecoverable state. Hybrid battery replacement is a big bill however you deal with it. It's easier to deal with if you own a plug-in, but if I were you, I'd make sure it was started and run every few weeks.

    The 12V aux battery is a baby issue in comparison. A battery-maintainer is a good idea, as it will maintain it in good condition, delivering a top-up charge as needed .
     
    #13 GregP507, Nov 24, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
    GDonald likes this.
  14. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    3,159
    988
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    PS is a steering issue and the fact that it went away when you restarted it means its likely an intermittent error. Going to the dealer to have them diagnose your HV battery is very unnecessary at this point and will only put a hole in your wallet. Your car "diagnoses" your battery hundreds of times a minute/continuously.

    And... by all means, drive it. Letting the car sit is the worst thing for it.
     
    GDonald likes this.
  15. dabard051

    dabard051 Tinkerer-in-Charge

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    232
    84
    0
    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I think the prius is teasing you.... :)

    I had that happen once to me, with my first gen I prius, and I solved it by replacing the 12v battery. Low or marginal 12v batteries are famous for causing peculiar electrical faults in gen I prii, and yours (155k miles and 12 years=13k miles/year) says your vehicle did lots of sitting in its youth, so the 12v battery is a prime suspect.

    To quote from Game of Thrones, "Winter is coming!" .... so a couple hundred dollar invesment in converting your existing 12v to an Optima 12v (much published elsewhere on how-to-do-it) is suggested.

    It will also provide several hundred dollars worth of peace-of-mind.

    Seriously, the vehicle is 12 years old. Do be prepared to provide geriatric automotive sustainence. There really ARE user-serviceable parts inside. If this sort of thing isn't comfortable, I suggest perusing the thread entitled "Who should NOT purchase a Gen I Prius" and come at the vehicle with your eyes open. Owning a Gen I can be a wonderful adventure or a pain in the posterior, depending on your temperment.
     
  16. GDonald

    GDonald Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    48
    2
    0
    Location:
    Vergennes, VT
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    II
    usnavystgc--When you say the car diagnoses the battery continously, are you referring to the dash displays--energy and consumption?
     
  17. GDonald

    GDonald Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    48
    2
    0
    Location:
    Vergennes, VT
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    II
    gregp507 and jimbopalmer: What would a (little) battery tender system look like and where would I get one?
     
  18. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    480
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    battery-tender - Google Search
     
  19. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    3,159
    988
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    The car is constantly monitoring the HV battery and if there is a fault/problem with it, it will alert you with warning lights. If you have no warning lights, your HV battery is fine.
     
  20. GDonald

    GDonald Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    48
    2
    0
    Location:
    Vergennes, VT
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    II
    My 2002 Gen1's dead in the driveway. So I've got some questions , but first some background: The car's got 157K; it's got its original big battery; the little battery is 1 year old (an Optima) it tested two weeks ago at 435A (which didn't seem all that far off from what it's supposed to be--450A); the car's set in the driveway un-driven for one week with night-time temperatures down to the teens (and some fierce driven rain/sleet/snow) there's a bit of dashboard light when I turn the key but just a "click" when I turn the key to start. Now the questions: Do I really have to follow all the step-by-step instructions in the Owner's Manual--is the Prius that special, or is this the same gig I've done for the past fifty years with other vehicles? Can I use my Jump Starter ("peak output 900A?")? Any danger of the small battery's being frozen--and even if it is, is it dangerous to try jumping a frozen battery?