GM releases some teasers for Volt 2.0

Still need the details on how much the battery takes up in space, but the Sonic hatch is an actual midsize to the Volt's compact.

Kindle Fire ? 2

 

Only if you are basing you opinion on cargo capacity.

The Volt is much longer(177" vs. 159") and has more passenger room (leg, hip and shoulder room) up front. The Sonic hatchback is much shorter and has more room in the back. A lot of the extra volume is vertically based which is useless unless you want to completely block the rear window and have a way of keeping gear from falling forward into the rear seat area. Still the extra height is very useful. I wouldn't call the Sonic a midsize car at all. Don't let EPA interior volume numbers fool you. It's how the volume is distributed throughout the cabin that determines its usefulness. That probably part of the reason, besides outside dimensions, that the Sonic is labeled a subcompact despite a high interior volume number.

 

the Prius has a better chance of being accepted as a midsize than a Sonic.

 

I agree, I own one.
They are small cars, but with more comfortable seats than a Prius among the ones that matter to me.

If using an ICE is that horrible, why even buy a car that has one? Besides the ICE will need to see use at some time to keep parts lubed and the gas fresh. Isn't it better to use it to actually move the car along than have it kick in while there is still EV miles in the pack?

That may be. It could also be that people found slower home charging fine when they saw how much the faster charger would cost to install at home. Then there is the factor of how many people wanted a faster charger once there was a price tag attached to it. When there is no cost to them, people want a lot of things, GM's decision on the charger size wasn't based solely on how many people use a wall outlet to charge now.

And you might be able to get it on the next Volt for a price.

The Spark EV had some pretty good reviews based on its improved performance over the gasser. I expect the same with the Sonic, and I also expect/hope it to reach a wider market. Being made in Korea, meant the Spark was ineligible for some type of credit, but the Sonic is US assembled.

Don't expect much sympathy from those whose only real options are the Leaf and Volt, with a maybe on a Smart ED, for your California man problems of wanting to charge faster away from home.

 

Because there are no affordable EVs with the range I need at over 200 miles. My daily usage is between 38 miles and 150 miles. On the weekends I may do 300+ miles in a day.

What credit was that? Consumers are able to get all of the available credits that I am aware of. Or do you mean on the pre-consumer side? My botany professor has a Spark EV and she loves it. She came from a Yaris though and is accustomed to small cars.

It's tough not having a 9-5 desk job or being retired with a fixed schedule. lol

 

On the manufacturer side, don't what exactly. It gets mentioned in articles on the Sonic EV, and it would explain why Spark EV roll out never went past the initial states.

 

That probably had nothing to do with it.

The spark ev contracted to have a123 batteries, then the company was sold in bankruptcy to the Chinese. This presented warranty risk to gm, and there was not much upside to a nationwide roll out. The switch to lg batteries should reduce the risk, but now the car is getting long in the tooth, so we don't know if there will be a roll out to more states, or a wait for the longer range bev (rumored to be sonic based, but this is only a rumor).

 

This article was the one I remembered talking about credits going to the Sonic but not the Spark EV.
2016 Chevrolet Sonic EV
"The Sonic EV will also be built in Michigan, which will allow GM to gain regulatory credits for selling a pure EV that is also made in America. The Chevrolet Spark EV, which is built in Korea, is not eligible,"
Not much on details.

 

That just isn't correct information California is giving full zev credits for the tucson fcv built in korea as well as the mirai and and clarity built in japan. There is no national origin in zev credits by design, otherwise they wouldn't have voted to change the rules to give more to the foreign producers.

The spark ev should be getting 3 credits like the leaf.
possible details of an ev on next generation sonic platform (probably designed with ev version in mind.
2017 Chevrolet Sonic EV: More Electric-Car Details Trickle Out

 

Can't rule out that the author is wrong, but I think he is referring to CAFE credits for alternate fuel vehicles. Qualifying ones sold count as more than one car for determining a manufacturer's CAFE number.
Under new CAFE rules plug-ins, natural gas, hydrogen cars are "incentive multipliers"

 

In cafe there is also not a "american" bonus, but plug-in cars including bevs and phevs get extra favors. The reason you move manufacturing to america is that localizes production. They were making the batteries in the US, the bodies in korea, and making the sales in california. If they make the bodies and batteries in michigan that should tighten the supply chain and allow the sonic to be more profitable. With ZEV and cafe credits the car can even lose money on a variable basis, but be profitable to gm as a whole company as they won't have to pay penalties for their profitable trucks.

 

It appears that imported and domestic cars are counted separately.
"Each automaker's fleet-wide average fuel economy consists of three potential fleets: domestic passenger cars, imported passenger cars, and light-duty trucks. (The split between domestic and imported cars exists to support domestic automobile production.)"
Federal Vehicle Standards | Center for Climate and Energy Solutions

The only Chevy import is the Spark, with some Impalas coming from Canada. A manufacturer can swap credits between cars and trucks, but I'm guessing it isn't one to one. So selling a Spark EV nation wide may not be as advantageous in terms of CAFE numbers as with a Sonic EV.

 

Yes but it just doesn't matter

The credits can be transferred, so it doesn't matter foreign, domestic, truck, car, etc.

note the multiplier does not change with country of origin.

 

If it doesn't matter, why even split an automaker's car fleet between import and domestic? I understand the government can do things that don't make sense, but is just counting them them separate enough to support domestic production as stated?

I think we just don't have the complete details on the credit trading system. This site from around 2001 C A F E Overview states that the credits couldn't be traded between fleets or manufacturer. The current rules do allow between manufacturer, and between car and truck, but it may not allow between import and domestic.

It sounds like we should eliminate the 2 fleet rule, and the National Academies recommended that. It was eliminated for trucks in 1999.

National-Academies.org | Where the Nation Turns for Independent, Expert Advice

Domestic Car Or Import? The Answer Is Not Simple - Philly.com

 

Do you have rules in mind? Articles I have read said the change in trading in starting in 2011 favored toyota as it could use its prius (import) credits now for 5 years instead of 3 to offset lower mileage in its tacoma, tundra trucks (domestic trucks). That was voted on in 2009. I don't know if there is a newer rule.

 

That is in place, and they can also sell the credits to other manufacturers. There isn't a divide between import and domestic truck fleets anymore though. You can't say import cars to import trucks only if there is no import truck. The question I have is if credits can be traded between the import and domestic fleets. I'm not 100% that there is a separate fleets still, though. The Center for Climate and Energy Solutions site is where I first found reference to the two fleets, and the other sources I found on it are over a decade old. I only think it is still around because it is the only way I can see the Sonic review author making the statement he did. It is well known that the CARB credits and federal tax ones have no domestic to import distinction.

 

We actually do have a difference in imported trucks. The chicken tax still is on imported pick up trucks, that is why everyone makes their pick up trucks in the US. Current Negotiations Could End 'Chicken Tax' - PickupTrucks.com News
Minivans and SUVS are trucks only to avoid cafe and safety requirements for cars. 2025 finally closes the Suv loophole in cafe.

 

But CAFE hasn't distinguished between import and domestic since 1999. Likely because all the trucks were domestic to avoid the chicken tax.

There are still separate domestic and import fleets for cars in CAFE. GM's domestic car fleet was at 33.6mpg and their imported one at 39.5mpg for 2013. While it was widely report that a manufacturer could transfer credits between car and truck, no report has mentioned if transferring is possible between the import car and domestic car fleets. Most reporters probably simply didn't think to ask the question. Until, there is a statement saying otherwise, I think it is a safe assumption that the previous rules, no swapping, are in effect.
Corporate Average Fuel Economy: How Automakers Rank - Cars.com

In which case, expanded sales of the Spark EV to other states is of little benefit to GM. It could mean for more credits to offset their trucks, but that can also be accomplished by a domestic Sonic EV. Which will also raise their domestic fleet average.

 

We should see more on the 12th.