France to install charging stations every 40 km (25 miles)

I think it'll have to be free-enterprise driven; anything else will be a money pit. Don't see anything about charging times.

 

i think the charging time will have to be greatly reduced. not many people are going to want to hang around for half an hour every 50-100 miles when they're traveling, contrary to the true believers here who enjoy 'stopping to smell the roses.' i'm sorry, but if i'm driving from boston to nyc in the middle of winter, there are no roses.

 

I'm all for it. A DCQC when done properly is only a few minutes. When I take my Leaf out of its range, I drive 50+ miles to the Nissan dealership directly off of the interstate, do a DCQC for 7-10 minutes as the GF gets frozen yogurt, and I am off again at low 90%'s from 45% ish SOC. The times to recharge from empty are not normal since that rarely ever happens. The next gen of CHAdeMO is going to be insanely fast charging but I probably won't see it in my Leaf's lifetime because of the altitude vs. power problems.

 

I think focusing on long trips misses the point.

If you want to visit family in the next town over it's nice know you may be able to stop for a QC before coming back. Thereby relieving range anxiety a little. It may also eliminate the embarrassing need to ask the family or friend to plug in your toy car.

 

16k recharging stations in France which is a relatively small country and which has a massive commitment to Nuclear power. Now how many would be needed in Canada? The US? Powered how? Paid for how? There are areas in the US with very varying population density. Can you see the support in a state like Montana with about 1 person per square km?

If I wanted to sell lots of electric cars, the business model I'd use is one that sells an electric car for when you are driving near your home and the auto sales office but where the deal provides larger conventionally powered ICE vehicles you can easily/cheaply rent for when you need or want to go longer distances where recharging is unavailable or impractical. Maybe bundle 30 days rental into the deal.

When I think of why I bought a Prius v as opposed to a smaller, cheaper, perhaps electric car, it really is for the around once a month I want to go beyond 70 miles away from home or need more space than a conventional sedan. More than 90% of the time I'm carrying weight and space around I don't need. Yet I need/want to go on the spur of the moment to wherever I want to go, park where I want and, for practical purposes, have no range limits or refueling elapsed time limits nor be limited by temperatures. If all I'd have to do is drive 5 miles, pick up a different car, leave mine there and be good for the trips that are the exception, I might have a different attitude towards electrics.

And this state (NC) isn't going to hand out subsidies, they won't even pay for quality education.

 

Which is why PHEVs (gas or hydrogen) make sense for a lot of people.

 

everyone makes great points, but i'm still thinking about the 99% of the driving public who don't even know what an ev is.

 

I don't think france or anyone else is talking about that density in the US or Canada France's biggest car company Renault is pushing plug-in vehicles, and the government seems to be supporting them.

On the other hand the state of california is providing $220 million to subsidize 100 hydrogen stations on a hydrogen highway. The French investment looks much less risky.

Renault/Nissan have sunk $5B into plug-ins so far. I don't think they have gotten the best bang for buck, but have sold more plug-ins than any other company or partnership.

Many in france take the train or fly for longer trips. It is definietly a different market than the US.
Electric Car Sales In France Grow Despite Worst November Since 40 Years
It looks like a tiny market compared to California, but politically they are pushing BEVs. I don't think the investment in randomly placing charging stations is wise, but the US congress just snuck $479 M in the budget for F-35s that the pentagon said it didn't need. Who are american's to judge wasteful budgets.

 

I wasn't suggesting that France was going to put a charging station in the US, but asking how many multiples of 16k would it take to populate the US with the density that France proposes for itself. France is about twice the size of Colorado. The US is just huge by comparison. Maybe something like that density would work on the US coasts.

When I take a medium range trip (from one end of France to another distance) in a car, it is usually with multiple people in the car and that changes the economics compared to a plane with its parking expense, security delays, baggage charges, less legroom, seat selection charges, etc. and expense to rent a car when you get to your destination. If I do that 3 or 4 times a year, then provide me a way of doing that as part of the BEV option. (I too do take the train in Europe and in the US if it makes sense. )

 

Sure. Texas is about 25% bigger than France, but France has about the population and GDP of California and Texas combined. That means that if France buys the same amount of BEVs as CaliTexas they can afford much denser charging networks. People in CaliTexas though buy a lot more plug-ins. That's the only reason I think the number is excessive. If they build them though they may come. The next gen zoe or leaf may use all those chargers. I can see quite a dense charging network growing up around the bay area, but calitexas has lots of space and that won't be driven to in a short range bev, so for those longer trips a long distance bev tesla or next gen long range, or phev seem to mean we can be much more sparse with chargers. No need for dense chargers in most of califoria or texas, but they should be on the interstates and maybe 1 and 101.

To tell you the truth I've only driven once in france and that was because I already had a car from germany that the company had rented for me. Would something like zip car work there for people with BEVs?

 

One of the car companies does include something like 5 days of a rental car with their BEV. I want to say Fiat, but all I really remember was that it was a Ca only model.

 

Why not throw in long drives across the Serengeti - or the Australian bad lands. It's not practical there either. We recently sold our 2nd home in Montana. Guess what ... no one's trying to get the driving public there to all ride motorcycles. They get snow - so it's not practical 100% of the time. Not even practical in much of the summer, because once in a while, you need to carry more than 2 people ... or maybe sometimes you need to haul a trailer. See, I don't think anyone here is arguing that an EV, or any other vehicle is practical for everyone, all the time . . . . not that this little nugget of obviousness hasn't been restated a bunch.
The OP's post relates to a country that's at least trying to break free from using more petro-fuel that it's using right now. How sad is it, that OUR country no longer seeks to be 1st in things like that ... or as you mentioned ... education. Even if it's a flop ... it's better than not even giving it a go.

and as for "where would we get the money?!?" type of questions; How about 1/2 of just 1% of the military budget from a half decade ago ...

Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

not that going to other countries to wipe out their resources so we can keep driving land barges with toy haulers isn't a great idea

.

 

France has suddenly realised the problems what their addiction to diesel has caused;

France plans diesel engine cull in fight over pollution | Autocar

They're looking at offering incentives to trade in a diesel car for an EV, and I think it's about €10k ($12,200). They have loads of nuclear power and export a fair chunk of it to us here in the UK when needed.

Renault have also supported BEVs and their Zoe model can now be purchased in the UK and Norway with the HV battery. Previously you could only lease it from Renault. Sales in both these countries are expected to substantially increase because of this move.

At the moment the UK motorway network has multi-standard EV charging stations at 50 mile intervals, and this distance is expected to reduce further. This isn't just one charger, but a couple on each side of the road and usually allow charging of all the popular BEVs (chademo, CCS, 13amp etc). This network is part Government funded but mainly private enterprise and free for use. The chargers are becoming so popular that many are often full and additional capacity being introduced.

EV Driver Etiquette - For The Road - Ecotricity
Charging points map UK | Electric car charge points | Next Green Car

 

i thought you could put your mouth over the new 'clean diesel' exhaust pipe? oh well, when one of their nuke plants melts down, they'll reverse course.

 

The Euro6 diesels are clean. The older ones are not. The French like to hang onto their cars for decades. An EV running on nuclear electricity is cleaner than petrol or diesel (unless there's an accident where soot emissions will be the least of your worries).

The techies might like this link, showing the French Grid live status;

French National Grid status

Roughly 90% nuclear and 13% hydro (with excess exported).

 

I don't think diesel, clean or otherwise, is the sole source of France's air quality problems...


Two-stroke scooters are big polluters | News24


Green Car Congress: Pollution plumes in Paris air are richer in gaseous aromatic compounds than in LA; gasoline engines main source of VOCs

 

We have city pollution issues here and I can count on one finger the number of scooters I see in a day, especially in winter. And new scooters have catalysts. Gone are the days of smokey, noisy scooters. Not seen one of those for decades.

Many electric scooters are on sale in the UK today, and probably in France. Perhaps they should encourage these more? Costs are minimal.

But if it is scooters causing a problem, then how come Oxford Street in London is one of the worst for pollution, yet scooters are a fairly rare sight here.

Oxford Street is one of the most polluted places in the world, and here's why - Comment - Voices - The Independent

Plenty of buses and older taxis and no scooters in this picture. Looks like it is older diesel that causes problems;

 

why aren't there incentives to upgrade diesel?

 

It says in the article I linked on scooters...

Is this incorrect?

Commenters on other sites have indicated that scooters are quite common in Paris. I've never been there, so I can't comment one way or the other.