1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Graphene and quantum dots have implications for fuel cell technology

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by strongbad, Dec 19, 2014.

  1. strongbad

    strongbad Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    170
    47
    0
    Location:
    Driggs, ID
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    A recently discovered property of graphene is that it can pass protons while stopping all gases and liquids:
    Full story here: Graphene-based Fuel Cell Membrane Could Extract Hydrogen Directly from Air - IEEE Spectrum

    The upshot is that graphene and boron nitride show promise as cheaper and more efficient proton exchange membranes than the polymer membranes currently in use.

    Also, researchers believe that graphene quantum dots can replace platinum as a catalyst in fuel cells:
    Full story here: Platinum Catalysts Are Outshined By Graphene Quantum Dots - IEEE Spectrum

    It looks like there's a lot of exciting research that could bring the current cost of fuel cells ( currently about $55/kw) down to a price point that makes them competitive with ICEs.
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,068
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus


    Certainly good news for fuel cells BUT supplying hydrogen remains a hard problem. There are many, readily available sources for hydrogen such as methanol and ammonia. Come up with a portable, efficient, hydrogen generator for these fuels and the problem is solved. But dealing with raw hydrogen in bulk above 20K is impractical.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,527
    4,057
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Nice this is one of the breakthroughs needed to make fuel cells viable. I hope it makes it out of the lab.

    On the second part current fuel cells cost considerably more than $55/kw. That kind of estimate is with manufacturing breakthroughs that the doe thinks will happen if we get to production of 500,000/year. The big players are talking about at most production of 5000 in a batch that lasts more than a year. Materials reaserch may drastically cut how complicated manufacturing is though. Cost estimates for toyota for hydrogen storage and fuel cell are $440/kw, for hyrunai $1300/kw. Don't let people fool you with that massive production quantity discount.


    Toyota, Honda, and Mercedes had all demonstrated practical on board methanol reformers in running fcv by 2001. These had about an efficiency of 80%. The problem is theses things have to warm up to around 200 C to work, giving a time delay to start. Add a bigger lithium battery, say a 4 kwh one and a plug, and you probably get around the short comings, as you have enough electricity to heat it up fast, and a bigger buffer for fc + reformer energy production. The problem though is this bigger battery + reformer probably costs more than the hydrogen tanks and the mirai is already $57,000. You need to drop the cost of the fuel cell for this to be practical, but perhaps this technology can not only make pem fuel cells cheaper but also methane reformers cheaper with catalysts that run at lower temperatures.

    This quote from the article makes me think this material could be used to make methane refomers work at lower temperatures.
    Now the lobby really wants to claim no carbon dioxide out of the tailpipe. That may be the biggest problem with using methanol, but renewable methanol made from biomas is probably less expensive per unit energy than renewable hydrogen, something the lobby has not admitted yet either.
     
    #3 austingreen, Dec 20, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2014
  4. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,080
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Would that help further enhance the market for biomass? With a better market for biomass we could make thinning our overgrown forests more cost effective.
     
  5. jdonalds

    jdonalds Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    541
    225
    0
    Location:
    Redding, California USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    Touring
    I've long been thinking the fuel cell cars are the answer to replacing the ICE. Now I'm thinking that graphene based battery systems might be more practical. The big problem for me with current EV technology is the charge time. With graphene batteries the promise is 500 mile range with 15 minute recharge times. If that comes true why bother with hydrogen at all.
     
    Robert Holt likes this.
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,606
    8,036
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Careful . . . . the fuel cell lobby will be sending you a message shortly;
    [​IMG]
    ;)
    .