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Inverter coolant is slime, worried about pump

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Wisco, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    Hi folks,

    I was replacing the spark plugs today in our 2002 (180k miles) and decided to peak in the inverter coolant reservoir. The coolant looks like a thick slime, sort of like Pepsi-bismol. There are others on Priuschat that have reported this about their coolant. I'm sure it's way overdue for a coolant change, which I plan to do.

    The thing that worries me is that there's very little movement in the reservoir when the pump is running. The videos on YouTube show vigorous sloshing, all I see in mine is a very slow swirling. I can hear the 'aquarium pump' sound coming from the pump.

    We haven't had any codes or symptoms associated with the inverter, but if the pump is toast I'd like to replace while I'm in there.

    Here's what I'm thinking..
    Either the pump is fine but can't circulate the coolant because of viscosity or clogged hoses, or the pump is toast and I should put a new one in when I do the coolant.

    Obviously I could flush the coolant and see if it resolves the issue, but I'd rather not do it twice. Anyone have a clever way to diagnose this?

    Also, it's a balmy 10*F today here in Wisconsin, if temps can effect things. I assume the pump is just on or off, and shouldn't be less vigorous on cold days.

    Thanks for your time!
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I'm trying to picture Pepsi-bismol. Sort of a worst of two worlds? Ew.

    I think there are two ways you can get gloopy coolant. I've seen threads where somebody once confused the HV coolant and HV lube (both are reddish) ... mix those and get an awful oily-watery foam glop.

    The other way, if it's really waay, waaay overdue for a change (the change interval is every two years, how long has it been?), the aluminum-corrosion inhibitors in the coolant are used up, and it starts eating the aluminum that the inverter and radiator are made of. The dissolved aluminum compounds form a kind of clear, thick jelly. (Let them dry and they'll eventually reach a white crystalline form.)

    Either way, your first move is to drain and flush, pronto. This might be a case where instead of DIY you'd want to visit a shop that has flush equipment. The inverter has narrow passages that can get plugged up with jelly, which you don't want. You also don't want the corrosion to proceed to the point of pinhole leaks between the wet passages and the dry, electronics compartments.

    After that, you might find the pump is just fine when it only has to pump coolant and not glop.

    -Chap
     
  3. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    Yeah, Pepsi-bismol sounds like the worst thing ever.

    We've had the car 1.5 years, no history before that.

    Thanks for the quick response! I'll see if anybody around here is equipped for the job. I expect a shop that does radiators could do it, time for the regular coolant too..
     
    #3 Wisco, Dec 4, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  4. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    I pulled some coolant out with a straw. Definitely more of the white jelly type once I got it out of reservoir. The slime was actually just a thin layer on top, the coolant underneath looks normal. The thinner coolant underneath was actually circulating a bit more enthusiastically also. Of course there could still be gobs of the stuff clogging the passages of the system..

    I found a shop that will do it, but they don't have a pressurized flush system, they just drain the coolant, run water through until it comes out clean, and then drain and fill with coolant. Does this sound sufficient?

    The mechanic seems knowledgeable, though he's never flushed an inverter, says it'll probably be around $100.

    He also suggested (as a pump diagnostic) that I could add coolant (perhaps siphoning down the reservoir first) to see it improves circulation. Since the capacity is only 3 quarts, I could actually get a decent % of fresh coolant in.
     
    #4 Wisco, Dec 5, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2014
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The best place to see an example of that is in this write-up by PC contributor hobbit, scrolling about 3/4 down the page. You can click the small images to see full ones with more coverage.

    Could be OK. Toyota recommends that any water used in the cooling systems be distilled, not tap ... no desire for any random minerals to get in there and interact with the coolant chemistry.

    I don't know how much plain circulation of water helps to dislodge any gel (quite possibly it is aluminum hydroxide, or so suggests a little googling in the plumbing arena, where water heaters with aluminum anode rods produce the same goop). Wikipedia says aluminum hydroxide will dissolve in either acids or strong alkalis, but I don't know how to suggest a chemical that might dissolve it but yet be safe for the inverter. A chemist might have an idea.

    -Chap
     
  6. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    The only problem with flushing with water, is that you cannot get it all out, so when you refill with SLLC (Toyota super long life coolant), it will be a weaker solution.

    If it were me, I'd use fresh SLLC to flush it or do his second suggestion and syphon the reservoir completely then refill with fresh SLLC.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I hadn't thought of that - I guess it could be a problem if you're using the premixed SLLC.

    One nice thing about the old LLC (which is the original spec for this car) - it's not premixed, so you could always stop a bit short of full, run the pump for a while to circulate, measure your mix with a hydrometer, and add some LLC straight if needed.

    -Chap
     
  8. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    True, I hadn't thought of that aspect. :)
     
  9. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    This great info. I'm going to get some fresh coolant in there and see if the pump performance improves. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but finding the coolant might slow this project down. No parts stores here have it. Nearest dealership is a ways away and buying online would take a few days too. Makes me wonder if a shop would really use TLLC/TSLLC or just something passably close.

    I picked up a flexible funnel and some tubing. If I can do it without making a mess I hope to use the tubing to route the old coolant coming back to the reservoir into a container and have the pump pull fresh coolant into the loop. I thought it would give me a better idea of the flow rate and how nasty the coolant is.
     
  10. Wisco

    Wisco Member

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    Update: I actually took care of this a while ago, but Tapatalk isn't working on my phone so I haven't been back.

    I rigged up a funnel and hose so I could pour fresh TSLLC into the intake and divert the old stuff into a container. Obviously not as thorough as a drain-flush-refill, but since the old and new coolant didn't mix in the reservoir and I ran a gallon through (capacity is 3 qts) I think it was effective. And I didn't have for worry about bleeding air out afterwards. The old coolant was a dark color, and perhaps a bit thicker than the fresh, but nothing like the slime I was dreading.

    Anyway, the pump did seem to pep up a bit. I should have timed it, but I'd guess it took 2 minutes to run a gallon through. Meaning (very approximately) .5 gpm, which seems low to me but I couldn't find specs on what the should be. I have EngineLink, so I'll just keep an eye on the inverter temps. Unless I see a drop in performance, I'll wait till spring to replace the pump.

    The car is throwing the dreaded P0420 (catalytic converter) which is competing for my attention. Thanks again for all the input.
     

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  11. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    Danny is working this weekend on getting Tapatalk fixed.
     
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  12. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    The way I'd do it is drain the transaxle / inverter coolant via the 24mm drain plug at the bottom of the tranny. The coolant plug is the one NOT on the black oil pan. Fill with distilled water, bleed system, let it circulate a while. Drain again, fill with Toyota coolant (red mixed with 50% distilled water). Replace aluminum washer on drain plug then torque to 36 ft pounds final time. Drive a few miles to shake out air pockets, bleed again.