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06 Prius not starting, low battery?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by cardana24, Oct 12, 2014.

  1. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    Here is a picture from last night when the car was running. The car was in "D" and ICE was running when I took this picture....look at the dash board!
    [​IMG]

    I am not super familiar with all of the lingo here...what is the "Position nag"? Is the resolve connector the one of the firewall side of the trans that the big plug goes into? Is this something that could be swapped from another trans? Also if this is the connector you are talking about I did not smash that sensor...I smashed the wiring harness that plugs into it, then I got a harness from another Prius and solder it into my wiring harness.

    What is luscious.com? I googled it and it does not come back with anything that looks like Prius stuff.

    Also I should reiterate that I drove this car into my garage with no problems other than a busted transmission case. I am having these problems since the transmission swap.

    I have a Mini VCI now. I have not opened the package though:)

    Yes, I need a new 12volt battery.
     
  2. Yakoma

    Yakoma Active Member

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    I'm sure he means lusciousgarage.com.

    I imagine there's all kinds of wrong on luscious.com.
     
  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Position nag is the ECU is not receiving rotational positioning info from that circuit via your wiring
    You repaired and is now throwing a DTC.
    The car will not drive with that DTC.

    You are throwing the red triangle master caution alarm also so the car is very unhappy.

    Charge up your new 12 volt battery. Check its voltage
    Before installation.

    Pull all codes including there 3 digit suffix and
    Post here.
     
  4. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Oh sorry its lusciousgarage.com

    Damn spellcheck.
     
  5. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    Here is a partial video that I tried to take last night but my phone ran out of storage space

    [​IMG]
     
  6. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    You have the hybrid turtle on the MFD too.

    Quit messing with it and get the codes pulled.
     
  7. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    #47 cardana24, Dec 22, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    All three DTC mean that there is a problem with the motor resolver circuit in the transaxle. There is a short circuit.

    If you are serious about doing something about this issue, subscribe to techinfo.toyota.com so that you can take advantage of the troubleshooting tree which is provided. That will allow you to test the wiring harness which connects the resolver connector to the hybrid vehicle ECU.

    That is necessary to confirm whether the wiring harness is good (or not). If the wiring harness is good then you would check the resistance across the various pins of the motor resolver connector to see whether the resolver is good or bad, based upon the troubleshooting tree.

    If those checks are good then you would end up with the assumption that the hybrid vehicle ECU has failed.
     
  9. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    Which level of subscription would I need to get the info I need??
    TIS
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The lowest level. That $15 investment will save you a tremendous amount of time.

    You will need a digital multimeter so you can use the ohmmeter function for the tests.
     
  11. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    This will probably be a dumb question, but I assume I can do all of the testing I need to do with the inverter removed? If I only get a two day subscription I am going to be on a time crunch because I will only be able to work on this on nights and weekends, so I need to have it ready to be tested when I get the subscription.
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well, I suggest that upon activating your subscription, you print to .pdf everything relating to the three DTC you had logged, as well as any other subjects of interest to you. Then you should be in good shape to execute the troubleshooting tree whenever you can do so.

    Also, I believe that the two day subscription is for two business days so if for example you activate on a Friday, you will probably have access through Monday or Tuesday of the following week.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    If you don't have Adobe Acrobat or similar, nor a printer, but are on Windows 7 or later, there's a built-in program called "Snipping Tool", which allows you to grab a screen shot, of any portion of the screen, and it can be saved as jpeg. In Start menu (win7) just start typing "snipping..." should find it.
     
  14. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    I have a new yellow top battery coming my way. Once that gets here I will proceed. Is there any helpful information I can provide to help diagnose this issue before my battery gets here? Also, for the testing that I need to do, is it best to remove the inverter...are there other parts I should remove in prep to do the testing?

    I don't remember if I have posted these pics here, but here is the plug that I smashed when installing the trans.
    [​IMG]

    So I got another plug off of a parts car and soldered it in
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Could I have fried something by soldering?
     
    #54 cardana24, Dec 23, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  15. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I'm not sure why you are asking about the inverter. Having taken those photos, you know what steps you had to take to gain access to the transaxle wiring harness socket.

    Use your ohmmeter to check the resistance across the various transaxle socket pins per the repair manual. If that is good, then use the ohmmeter to check the wiring connections between the mating wiring harness socket, and the hybrid vehicle ECU. You may have to run an extension wire for this testing. Use the ohmmeter to determine the resistance of any extensions, so you can subtract that from the reading.

    If you did not disconnect the wiring harness from the hybrid vehicle ECU before soldering, it is possible that a static charge may have been passed to the ECU which would not be helpful to the ECU's health. Before you decide that you destroyed the HV ECU, first verify the other components.
     
    #55 Patrick Wong, Dec 23, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  16. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Well your wiring job is going to have to be redone anyway as you used heat shrink tubing but never shrank them and there a little short. That wont last long no matter how much tape you use over it in an under the hood environment. Use a Western Union splice and corrosion protection applied to the joint after solder and extra long hst.

    I see the colors aren't matching either or may be the photo. Was the color code wrong on the donor plug? If so double check the color code transfer and more importantly check that the physical pins in the plug are the same they be slightly different but look the same at a glance if not identical plug.

    That's the resolver plug alright right back to the HVECU as Pat says. The HVECU is located behind the glove box on the fender.
    Its right next to the Engine ECU. The HVECU is on the right fender side.
     
  17. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    I'll double check the wiring, but if I remember correct the wires matched perfectly color for color so I did not even check the pin locations.

    Yeah the heat shrink did not work out the way I hoped, but I really doubt it would be causing the problems I am having...but who knows, anything is possible.


    Thanks for the info about the location of the hybrid ecu, I was wondering where it is located.
     
    edthefox5 likes this.
  18. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    My yellow top came in the mail yesterday. I have not put it in the car yet. But it made me wonder...where does the Hybrid ECU gets it's start up/run voltage from?

    Also, last night I went ahead and pulled the inverter again in preparation for testing. I also unplugged the resolver plug and checked that plug compared to the plug that I smashed and the pin locations are the same and the wire colors are the same, so the splice is matched up correctly.


    *I found this diagram while googling my dtc's. What are they calling the Motor Generator? Is that the hybrid trans?*

    *edit* for some reason I cannot post the picture, it came from this link...you have to open up the .pdf it links http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDcQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.askatech.com%2FAskATechLive%2Fforums%2FResourceHandler.ashx%3Fa%3D8291&ei=kM2aVOn4DubIsATx2IGYDw&usg=AFQjCNHFbzdlH43ckpOtUud-0zYgHqOJwQ
     
    #58 cardana24, Dec 24, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
  19. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. Fully-charge the new 12V battery prior to installation. Some members have recently reported their new Optima battery was partially discharged upon receipt.

    2. All ECUs get their startup voltage from the 12V battery. Hence if the battery is in poor condition, that may induce faults that otherwise would not exist.

    3. Once the Prius becomes READY, the DC/DC converter within the inverter maintains voltage on the 12V bus at ~13.8V.

    4. The transaxle contains two motor generators: MG1 and MG2. The resolver sensors keep track of the exact position of each MG. This is required so that the hybrid vehicle ECU can compute the RPM of each MG, determine what direction each MG is spinning, etc. MG2 is connected to the transaxle output shaft so its speed is always proportional to vehicle speed. MG1 is required to allow the gasoline engine to spin even when the car is at a stop. MG1 also acts as the gasoline engine's starter motor. MG1, MG2, and the gasoline engine are all connected together via a power split device located within the transaxle. The PSD is similar in functionality to a differential.

    5. Given your description of the work that had been done to your car and the logged DTC, the most likely fault areas to examine would be the transaxle connector, to see whether there is any fault within either of the two resolver sensors, as well as the soldering/splice work you did.
     
    #59 Patrick Wong, Dec 24, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
  20. cardana24

    cardana24 Junior Member

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    In looking at your description of in #4 could I be causing a CEL by starting the car on jack stands? Both times I have got the car started on jack stands. I put it in drive just to see if it will go into drive, so the wheels start to spin but the car is not actually moving...could this be causing a CEL?

    In response to #5, I assumed the resolver sensor was the one on the firewall side of the trans. You mention 2 resolver sensors...are those the two on the radiator side of the trans?