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6.5 year old brake fluid how can you tell when it needs changing.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by sorka, Jan 24, 2015.

  1. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Yea, the first response should be if it's that old, it should be changed. However, not so fast. It's a 2009 we bought mid 2008. It has 186K miles on it. The brake fluid is as clean and clear as the new fluid I have. The moisture level is less than 1% and the copper content tests out at 0 ppm. The threshold for either of these is moisture at 3% or more or copper at 200 PPM or more.

    Our 2007 Lexus SC430 with only 30K miles on it tested the same. Almost not moisture and 0 PPM copper.

    How can 6.5 year old brake fluid test out as essentially new?

    Before these two cars, I usually did a complete flush about every 4 years without any sort of testing. Do we change our brake fluid too much? Have the brake systems changed so that water doesn't intrude through the brake lines anymore? Are they no longer lined with copper? Am I missing something?
     
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  2. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    I'm not sure, but I think since the prius isn't very heavy and uses regen for most of the braking, the fluid doesn't ever get warm and so the prius is easier on the fluid than most cars. the temperature change probably does affect the amout of moisture that gets in the fluid.
    what I've noticed is that full size suvs the brake fluid would be nasty looking after 2 years, but smaller cars it would only be slightly discolored after 2 years. never tested the fluid, just flushed it at 2 years per MB maintenance schedule. only time I've had prius fluid flushed is when the '05 developed a kind of squeak while braking when it was cold out. tsb said to flush it.
     
  3. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Brake fluid is doesn't deteriorate with usage. In fact, it doesn't deteriorate at all. It can get dirty from brake system break down, but that only occurs because of corrosion. Mileage is usually not a factor. Time is and the more time passes, the more moisture enters the fluid which causes corrosion.
     
  4. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    The brake fluid is in a sealed system. You shouldn't need to touch it at all as long as you properly maintain the pads/disks and shoes/drums. As a machine design engineer who has worked in the automotive industry, the only cars I have ever seen that need the brake fluid changed are antique cars due to their age.

    Bill the Engineer
     
  5. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Take the fluid samples from the bleed ports on the calipers and cylinders. The numbers and appearance may surprise you.
     
  6. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    I've done that in the past when bleeding brakes on our previous Lexus SC400 and it's always been the same except that moisture is sometimes a little higher in the reservoir but often they're they same.

    Not related, but interestingly, I have about 70% pad life left after 186K miles.
     
  7. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    you've never worked on modern Benz's then because the brake fluid in the GL, ML and S classes all get nasty in 2 years of regular driving. these vehicles are all too heavy, and the brakes get a real workout stopping them. when the fluid turns brown or green, you really wouldn't want to leave it in the system. I've never actually tested it for moisture content, but when its badly discolored, something is going on.
     
  8. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    With all the expensive brake system issues the Prius line has had, and recent change cycle to 3/36 for the Prius, Toyota's (and most cars/trucks mfgs) practice/recommendations, industry standard practice for DOT 3 and my personal experience...I'll stay with the "no such thing as lifetime fluids" school of preventative maintenance. Can't speak to your vehicles and experience but wish continued good fortune. My signature below is my practice, in the air and on the ground.
     
  9. Easy Rider 2

    Easy Rider 2 Senior Member

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    I personally think so.
    At the extreme, my Dad's pickup truck went 20 years with no problems.

    My only question regarding your story is:
    In all that time and all those miles did you NOT have to do any brake work yet ??

    I figure that I'll just wait until I need some brake work and then have it done then.
    I'm guessing that will be at least 5 years and 50K miles.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Any time you've got the wheels being rotated is a good opportunity for brake fluid replacement, fwiw.
     
  11. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    your dad's pickup probably didn't have abs or any complicated stuff in the brake system. when the fluid turns green, it means the brass valves in your abs pump are corroding. brown or black fluid may have corrosion going on too, plus the possibility of dirt or wear in the system. yes it is unscientific, but I would keep an eye on the fluid. if it becomes discolored, change it,
     
  12. Easy Rider 2

    Easy Rider 2 Senior Member

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    Probably a good rule of thumb.
    I think I heard that it is designed to change color with the presence of excess moisture too.
     
  13. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    I don't know if it was actually designed to change or whether that's just the way it is, but I've seen some really nasty looking brake fluid. and yet stupid cheap customers are like "I don't want to spend any money on that". can't fix stupid.
     
  14. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    :eek: "But you don't understand. This is a magic vehicle with magic fluids and filters designed exclusively to last forever thereby saving the environment and the world from it itself." :whistle:
     
    #14 frodoz737, Jan 25, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  15. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    They make brake fluid test strips for testing the fluid. I tested my 5 year old brake fluid a few months ago and it tested fine.
     
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  16. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Actually it's a myth that brake fluid turning dark means that the brake fluid is bad. Many brake systems have dies on the interior surfaces in the system that come off with exposure to brake fluid.

    Color is not a reliable indicator. You could have brown or green brake fluid that is perfectly fine yet in another vehicle you could have perfectly clear brand new looking fluid that needs to be changed.

    Sure, and not needing to change brake fluid should not translate into not maintaining the rest of the brake system. The calipers and drums most certainly need to be cleaned from time to time otherwise calipers can stick and other nasty expensive stuff can happen.
     
    #16 sorka, Jan 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2015
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my dakota is 10 years old with 25,000 miles. how do you know when you have a brake problem caused by bad fluid?
     
  18. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    My car has 91,000 miles now. At 100,000 miles I plan to check the brakes thoroughly, especially the calipers and pins. Even if all is good I will plan to take to the dealer and have the brake fluid replaced if nothing more than to be proactive.
     
  19. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Many years ago before I did ALL of my own maintenance and repairs, I had the dealer do a brake fluid flush. They didn't tighten the bleed screws down all the way and brake fluid leaked out and spewed along the right side of the car and destroyed all the paint. I had to have a $4000 paint job. The dealer denied all responsibility for it. Fortunately I had full coverage and my insurance company went after the dealer and got them to pay.

    Be careful about what you do to be proactive. Sometimes it's not worth it or necessary.

    You're money might be better spent elsewhere. For instance, how many times have you changed your trans axle fluid? If you're running the original fluid, then you're very likely looking at a trans axle failure soon. Getting that changed would be a much higher priority than your brake fluid *IF* your brake fluid tests fine. i.e. don't just have it flushed for the heck of it. The dealer should have copper strips and a moisture probe and if they're not a rip off, which most dealers are, they will test the fluid (takes no time) and make a recommendation based on that.
     
  20. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    I do my own maintenance work due to inadequate work by dealers and others. I have changed the ATF at 25 and 50k miles and plan to change it again at 100k.

    You need Techstream to perform the brake fluid replacement which I do not have. I will have to trust the dealer on this one and check behind him thoroughly.