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HV battery maintenance suggestions

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by DenToyPri05, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. DenToyPri05

    DenToyPri05 Junior Member

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    now that i've had a few small and easy solutions under my belt, i'm thinking of coddling the care and maintenance of my hv battery now.

    they way that i am approaching the battery is this:

    $2k - $3k to replace

    or

    $20k - $25k for a new (or new-to-me) auto.

    any recommendations for denver, co on who to go to to either test hv battery, get it replaced, or both? (in case testing proves that the hv is closer to toast than whole wheat or fluffy white wonder bread?)
     
    #1 DenToyPri05, Jan 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    You can buy a grid charger at the Priuschat shop for $399 and it should help keep your battery from going toast......for now
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think there is someone in denver...(n) ...boulder hybrids? okay, that's not denver.:oops:
     
  4. DenToyPri05

    DenToyPri05 Junior Member

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    just read about this...has anyone been using it for a while? results? thoughts?
     
  5. DenToyPri05

    DenToyPri05 Junior Member

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    if that's the closest, then, boulder it is.

    haha...boulder isn't denver, but boulder might be where i'll go. as long as it's closer than 50 miles, i'll consider it.
     
  6. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    You could give PriusChat member and frequent contributor 3prongpaul | PriusChat a private message and ask him if anyone in Denver is good.
     
  7. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    We have sold close to a thousand of our charger systems over the last 24 months, over a hundred to Prius owners like yourself. Our customers report very positive results including eliminated re-calibrations, improved MPGs, increased EV mode, and more. This is a typical example of what a two-deep discharge cycling of a 140k 9 year old Prius battery:
    [​IMG]

    A 19% increase in usable battery range. Re-calibrations are eliminated for months. Our products regularly add years to the life of Honda NiMH batteries that have already 'failed' with the equivalent to a triangle of death. They are already delivering the same type of results for Prius owners worldwide. The sooner that one starts using a charger to maintain their hybrid battery, the more benefit will be received by using it. Feel free to send me a note or email through the website with any questions. I am happy to help however I can :)
     
  8. DenToyPri05

    DenToyPri05 Junior Member

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    i think it might be better just to replace the hv battery. here's my reasoning...

    i got the prius used in april 2014. it had about 116k miles on her then, and the hv battery was never serviced/change/monitored - at least as far as i can tell from available history. the battery will eventually go; they all do. rather than use ~$400 for a grid charger now and ~$1500 when the battery eventually needs to be replaced, put the ~$400 toward a replacement hv battery now. it doesn't seem to make a difference if i get a battery now or in 7 months (hypothetically assessing life left). she has 120k now, so it's only a matter of time.

    ...these are just my late night ramblings
     
    #8 DenToyPri05, Jan 15, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i disagree somewhat. gen II batteries are rock solid and a small minority have trouble before 150,000. if you're not experiencing any problems, why make a $2-3,000. investment now?
     
    Tony D and PriusGuy32 like this.
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    If you mean replace when it fails, I agree. While it is true that all traction batteries have finite lifetimes, that does not even remotely equate to all Prius eventually requiring a battery purchase. 10 year old Prius seem to be running a ~ 5% replacement rate.

    Odds are in your favor that the car will enter car heaven with the original traction battery still operating.
     
  11. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I wouldn't equate the two options exactly that way. Trading up is usually the more expensive option, unless maintenance costs have put you under water with the value of the car, in which case, get rid of it asap. Otherwise, repair is usually the best option. It amounts to whether you can afford the upgrade or not.
     
  12. TampaPrius.com

    TampaPrius.com Active Member

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    For any gen2 Prius owner that has an out of warranty car and wishes to keep it for a long time, I strongly recommend Jeff's grid charger with the discharge ready harness and get the simple discharger too. You can purchase it in the Priuschat Shop. You may have to go to his website to get the simple disharger.
    Store - Hybrid Automotive - Honda & Toyota Grid Chargers

    If you own more than one gen2 Prius (or have friends or family with one) this is an even better deal. You can buy a separate harness for each additional car and split the cost of the charger.
     
  13. DenToyPri05

    DenToyPri05 Junior Member

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    Thanks everyone. All good points and all excellent topics to explore. Thankfully, I'm not underwater with maintainance costs, and I like preventing potential issues, or at least mitigating the financial impact with heavy front-loaded planning.

    I'll be looking first at assessing the health of the HV battery and move to the next step from there.

    The grid charger interests me, but I won't get ahead of myself. First things first.
     
  14. tanglefoot

    tanglefoot Whee!

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    Are there any indications of HV trouble (cooling fan running on high, fast changes in state-of-charge)?

    If it's not exhibiting symptoms, I follow the "just drive it and don't worry about it" philosophy. It's easy to become somewhat paranoid about the lifespan of the components from following forums and rumors, but, as mentioned, failure rates are statistically low. The Prius continues to be among the most reliable and easiest-to-own production vehicles. Even the 1st-gens that we're wary of are probably more trouble-free than most of the other cars out there.

    I'm not sure if you've seen this item, but it helps put me at ease about the Pri (see the chart near the bottom):
    Honda Civic Hybrid Battery Reliability | Hybrid Batteries - Consumer Reports News
     
    #14 tanglefoot, Jan 16, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
  15. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Prospective customers report decreased MPGs, negative re-calibrations (where the SOC display suddenly drops to two red bars and the car idles high while force charging the battery), and less frequent EV mode. These are all early signs of NiMh battery failure. If the battery is charged & re-balanced, or even better deep cycled at this point, the symptoms will go away for a significant amount of time (multiple months is typical) depending on driving conditions and user habits. When the symptoms start to return, repeat the process. Many Prius owners have become customers and used this process to 'bring back' deteriorated packs and/or prevent their packs from reaching a deteriorated condition in the first place.
     
  16. DenToyPri05

    DenToyPri05 Junior Member

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    Very nice! Thanks for the link. 2% for my year...that's good news.

    I'm intrigued by all of the battery angles. If I had deep pockets - so deep, I can't find the lint - then I'd replace the battery for peace of mind and be done with it. I'd have a clean baseline from which to monitor. But my lack of deep pockets usually lends to over analysing every burp, hiccup, and sigh. So, yes, I've become somewhat paranoid and keep reading. But, I am (probably ridiculously) overjoyed when I stumble on the little things I can do on my own that will keep her on the road or, better yet, get educated on how to better assess "symptoms."

    So far, the short freeway hops aren't helping me get a grip on the true state of the battery (or maybe this is the true state of the battery...?), but my usual city/hwy combination has climbed back up...not to the mid-50's I'd seen during the summer, but still better than mid-30's. No fast changes in the state-of-charge. After another spring/summer, I will have had a full year of data that will help.

    Right now, she's getting the 120k maintenance service, so when I get her back, I'll take each a 20 mile city trip and a 50 mile hwy trip and establish some sort of baseline or data point for the winter months.

    As a fun thing to do, I'm taking my gas savings on Prius compared to my truck and starting a vacation fund. I get 4x as many mpg on Prius than truck; I think the fund grow quickly. Mini vacation fund is based only on gas savings. New Zealand sounds lovely...
     
    aaron00olsen likes this.
  17. DenToyPri05

    DenToyPri05 Junior Member

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    So, I'm getting the hv checked/assessed to see what, if any, modules are not pulling their weight. This will give me a good baseline for monitoring from here on out.

    Funny, tho...on the way to the shop, there was a steady increase in elevation; my battery charged AND my mileage increased to around 50-52mpg over a distance of 20 miles and 40 minutes. No erratic battery behavior.

    The more I read about the grid charger, the more I'm leaning toward getting it. I just need to get a better idea on how to use it. I know that sounds strange, but I don't understand how it works. Plus, I'm not sure if I'm understanding the process correctly on where it draws power to charge the hv. So I have more reading ahead of me. Even though this is my daily commuter car, there have been stretches of days that I don't drive her...not good.
     
  18. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Yes if the car is sitting for several days or more self-discharge of the HV battery cells will become an issue over the long term. The charger very slowly charges the cells above their actual maximum capacity. Full cells hold at 100% charge and give off some heat that is easily dissipated. Weaker cells continue to charge until all cells are at 100% and balanced. For even better results, performing a deep cycling of the pack 2-3 times a year will recover lost capacity and deliver better overall results than just charging alone.

    The charger draws power from any normal AC outlet in your home. The current draw is 75W or less, so any socket will work, no special residential electrical hardware is required. :)
     
  19. DenToyPri05

    DenToyPri05 Junior Member

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    What does "deep cycling of the pack" mean?
     
  20. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Discharging the pack to a low level to break down crystal formations and regain lost battery capacity, then charging it back to full. On our 2005 Prius with 140k miles, we increased the usable capacity of the HV battery by 19%.