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Climate change news

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    FYI, I was about to post a detailed analysis of this paper when a 'virus alarm' went off on my work computer. My detailed analysis was starting with "Math hockum . . ." but now I'm even less inclined to recommend this paper due to the on-going, investigation of a possible virus:
    • it could be just a custom 'downloader' used in the link, perfectly harmless
    • it could be an infected PDF file seeking to exploit Adobe reader, perfectly harmless
    • it could be something worse
    Please understand I have no hard data on this download paper. Our IT Security people will be doing a through check and we'll see what is going on. Just a word of caution . . .

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    WARNING: the link "reading this paper" is under investigation:

    The sources of this paper have me reading this paper with a skeptical eye like I would read a paper on tobacco health effects from a cigarette maker.

    Read more: Climate change news | Page 2 | PriusChat
    Follow us: @PriusChat on Twitter | PriusChat on Facebook

    Bob Wilson

    The sources of this paper have me URL='http ://www. scibull. com:8080/EN/article/downloadArticleFile.do?attachType=PDF&id=509579' reading this paper /URL with a skeptical eye like I would read a paper on tobacco health effects from a cigarette maker.

    Read more: Climate change news | Page 2 | PriusChat
    Follow us: @PriusChat on Twitter | PriusChat on Facebook
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Ok, 'less bad news.' I downloaded the paper using Internet Explorer on a Windows XP. I then had a virus scanner run and so far, nothing bad.

    That does not mean a 'clean bill' as a clever cyber warrior would have IP addresses they watch for and substitute a virus or infected file for these special IP addresses. So the work computer is not 'off the hook.' But at this point, I don't see anything to 'set ones hair on fire.' The paper is probably OK for ordinary users in regular IP space.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Just spoke with our IT Security guy and he didn't find anything. His working hypothesis is Symantec gave a 'false positive' alert. But he will need another day to complete his checks. He did give me the OK to resume using my work computer.

    This does NOT mean the paper is OK.. It simply means it is probably safe to download a copy. I'll be posting a more detailed review in the next day or so. Now about my review criteria:
    • style - posting the cure for cancer in such obtuse and obscure language in effect makes it useless
    • content - whether the central concepts are accurate
    Style is something personal and I know folks who think like an HP calculator, reverse Polish. It may be this paper was written in that style because it looks like the driving formula are posted first followed by the argument definitions. Whether I am able to tie their arguments to basic physics will pretty well govern my option of the content.

    The hard copy suggests the author(s) snipped pieces from earlier models and reports versus something built from scratch. This is risky because sometimes there are implicit limitations within the cited papers and reports that don't get picked up for the model described in this paper. Less is best and to the degree an author cites well established physics, they are on solid ground. Picking something up 'second hand' is not as professional and I saw some of that in the few paragraphs I started to parse.

    Anytime a paper requires hard copy to parse, it automatically loses 'style' points. Good thing I was never a professor . . . I would have been hated as a hard grader.

    Bob Wilson

    ps. This is what popped up:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    FYI, I sent and e-mail with these screen shots to the SCI site, publications editor . . . in case they didn't know about it.
     
    #44 bwilson4web, Jan 28, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Pachauri resigned as head of IPCC. Seems unusual that this is not being widely covered in news media.

    Sea level rise along parts of the NE US coast were rising very quickly in 2009-2010. Apparently, changes in the AMOC (the Gulf stream is a better-known term that means roughly the same thing) have changed the shape of the N Atlantic ocean surface. It is not really ‘flat’ at the appropriate scale. This matters, I think, because it concerns a coastal area very significant in economic terms. It is not global sea-level rise nor post-glacial isostatic rebound. It is something that those guys may need to deal with. Spend money to defend against coastline degradation. Whence might that money come? I do not know.

    Greenland had less ice coverage during the Holocene Thermal Maximum (HTM). I have not read this paper in Geology (journal), but the abstract is pretty clear. HTM was warmer than (or at least as warm as) the present, at least in the Northern Hemisphere and at least during summers. The ‘at leasts’ are why the paleoproxy global T reconstructions don’t put that time higher than the present. But it was warmer in Greenland; that seems pretty clear. Lower ice cover then is not a particularly cheerful thought. It suggests that ice cover there is not resistant to T increases over millennial scales.

    A request is often made for a direct demonstration that CO2 at currently increasing concentrations actually warms the troposphere. This by people who somehow doubt that CO2 absorbs infrared energy, but whatever. That direct demonstration was published in Nature (journal) this week, 25 February, online version (so it will appear in a later print issue). It is almost a 6 MB download, so if you go to a library to get your copy, be prepared. In fact, if memory serves, some well-known doubters have said that the only thing they are waiting for is such a demonstration. So be prepared for some recantations as well :). Title “Observational determination of surface radiative forcing by CO2 from 2000 to 2010”. DOI: 10.1038/nature14240
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I had read some news reports about this paper but it isn't clear this paper will change minds. I am more interested in the CO{2} global survey going on now.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Whether Monckton et al have proven that conventional climate models run hot, there is another new study that merits your attention:

    Steven J. Smith*, James Edmonds, Corinne A. Hartin, Anupriya Mundra and Katherine Calvin
    Near-term acceleration in the rate of temperature change
    Nature Climate Change DOI: 10.1038/NCLIMATE2552

    After digging in, you will see that they say several things beyond what I present here. For example, Figure 1 shows 70-year periodicities over a millennium that look a lot like ocean dynamics to me.

    This was a DOE-funded study (money that mojo didn’t want spent; I hope he recants!) using ‘main stream’ climate models. Under presumptions of climate religion/greatest hoax ever/journal censorship, it would never have been published (well, outside of ‘Energy and Environment’). But here it is. One piece of explanation, RCP8.5 is a scenario where atmospheric CO2 will increase pretty fast, and RCP4.5 is a scenario where atmospheric CO2 will increase pretty slowly and level off soon. Learn more about them from IPCC – their scenarios.

    I attach their Figure 4 here, with red circles added by me. It shows that, over a wide range of future CO2 concentrations, conventional climate models do indeed look like they run hot. This is not to say that global air T could not get up above 0.2 oC per decade (the models’ central case), but they are not there now. T is increasing, but not that fast. In addition, whether the 21st century averages 0.2 oC per decade or possibly something less, we have 8.5 decades to go, and you can do the math.

    smith et al 2015 climate fig 4.jpg

    This one study isn’t the whole story, but it has had more effect on me than anything from skeptics. I hope that it gets examined very closely, by all concerned parties. And ‘examined’ means to ask if this study has used all available information and tools in the most appropriate way? How could it be improved? Climate skeptics did not do this work; I reckon they don’t have much to brag about.

    I suppose that it could still be wrong; that it might underestimate the ability for some heat already trapped in well-mixed shallow oceans to return to the atmosphere. But to know about that, we’d need a global circulation model that actually ‘does oceans right’. Dangit.

    If it is generally correct, we are talking about 2 oC or less during this century, robust across future CO2 trajectories (readers will kindly note that I have never said such here before). If grounded ice can hold, sea level rise would be less than a meter in this century (note: the paper is not about that interesting question, and ice does whatever it wants to). Sea-level rise is not globally uniform, in some places even a little will damage the human enterprise in terms of habitation, agriculture, and shipping – it seems entirely appropriate to identify such places and focus adaptation efforts (money) there. Ocean pH will continue to decline (with atmospheric CO2 increases; it cannot do otherwise), and biological responses to that are a whole ‘nother thing. As it is getting warmer, extreme events will increase in some areas. Looking first to where they have happened in the past makes the most sense and I have always been with Pielke about that.

    We need more food, potable water, and energy to improve the human enterprise this century. More protection against, and responses to, adverse effects of climate change (one would entirely miss the point of Smith et al. 2015 by supposing that climate is not changing). We need to find where our boat is leaking, and plug those holes.

    But maybe, hopefully, ideally, we have some time. Maybe we have a chance to look at medical externalities of burning fossil C that have previously been ignored. Where can the most money be made (universal goal J ) with renewable energy? Where is burning a better bet? With oil now so cheap, reducing that industry’s tax subsidies could free up a lot of cash to focus on what governments are supposed to do – improve the human condition.

    I am very pleased to bring this publication to your attention, and to hear your thoughts about it, and about the larger issues.
     
  8. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Doug,

    Thank you for bringing attention to that paper. Thank you also for the graphics and a summary of the paper since full access to the paper is paywalled here (abstract only available for free).

    I'm still skeptical that climate models can project atmospheric response to a 2 degree C/century rise in global mean temps or whatever it turns out to be. Extreme events may increase, but it's really speculative, IMHO.

    IPCC says in AR5 that skill in hindcasting precip is "much lower" than skill in hindcasting temps (Chapter 11, page 973). According to objective data, ambient global mean temps are falling below the climate model ensemble projections, as you highlight in the graphics in your post, so that doesn't foster much confidence in model projections of precip trends.

    I would like to see some studies which show the same trends as the temp graphics with regard to precip since I think precip is a more challenging parameter to model than temps, as are cloud trends and upper air flow ("jet stream") configuration trends.
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I want to say that I did not summarize the paper. I selected one point and ran with it in my own direction. Y'all are still assigned to read.

    Also I want to remind folks that besides your friendly local librarian, published papers are generally available upon email request to the corresponding author. In this case,

    Dr. Stephen J. Smith, Joint Global Change Research Institute, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, 5825 University Research Court, Suite 3500, College Park, Maryland 20740, USA. *e-mail: [email protected]

    The paywall has windows. If I am never obliged to repeat that here (again), it would be just great.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sorry but I have a local peak effort at work so it may take a while to get time to look at this. But one thing jumps out:
    [​IMG]
    Notice in the 1950s and ~1985 on the time scale, the 'observed' values were divergent high. Now they appear to be as much on the low side as they were high earlier and not yet out of boundaries. From a math standpoint, it is 'interesting' and worth study but like any paper, needs independent review. Just I don't have the cycles to burn, yet.

    What gives me unease is treating a collection of models as an average instead of individual examination. In particular, models may (and some do) have goals independent of global temperature. Then there is the challenge of initial run conditions.

    These are just initial impressions.

    Later,
    Bob Wilson
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Here is summarized another new publication:

    Past warming increased snowfall on Antarctica, affecting global sea level -- ScienceDaily

    It suggests that previous warm times (specifically around Antarctica) increased snowfall there. From the perspective of T and sea levels,this would act as a negative feedback.

    For those concerned about future climate excursions, negative feedbacks are very handy things.

    More about Antarctica has come up recently:


    East Antarctica Melting could be Explained by Oceanic Gateways | JSG News


    They mentioned the journal (Nature Geoscience) but not the DOI (10.1038/ngeo2388).

    The study discusses a large area potentially susceptible to 'warm' sea water getting in and causing faster melting. That would be a positive feedback in contrast to the study I mentioned @51. But y'know, Antarctica is complicated.

    I have a general tendency to post 'less bad news' about climate change here. However, if there is concern that climate change is not being debated fully enough, I'd need to broaden the scope of publications mentioned here to include 'more bad news'. That would be a bother, for you and me both :)

    Another new one:

    Laidre, KL (in press). Arctic marine mammal population status, sea ice habitat loss, and conservation recommendations for the 21st century. Conservation Biology DOI: 10.1111/cobi.12474

    These 11 marine mammals have some type of ice dependency, and (northern) sea ice has been reducing since 1979 (satellite era). Polar bears get most of the attention (Ursus frigidarus, I think, in the Hanna/Barbera naming style).

    Overall we may say good news, in that there are fewer red boxes than the other non-gray colors. Not so good in the sense that there are so many gray (unknown status) boxes. Perhaps there is a bit of spare cash available for monitoring?

    We might be surprised that Polar bears have so many gray boxes, given the attention paid them. I liked the harp seals being all green. Aren't they the ones whose pups get clubbed?

    Southern sea ice is a separate matter (and it has been at high stand recently). If anybody knows ice-dependent species there, speak right up. Especially interested in krill.

    Anyway, here's your free figure:
    Laidre et al 2015 N sea ice animal trends.jpg

    and link to the press release:
    First global review on the status, future of Arctic marine mammals | EurekAlert! Science News

    Another new one:

    Scientists predict gradual, prolonged permafrost greenhouse gas emissions, allowing us more time to adapt -- ScienceDaily

    suggesting that permafrost is likely to not cause a runaway positive feedback in the near future.
     
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  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Stevens, B. Rethinking the lower bound on aerosol radiative forcing. In press, J.Clim (2015) doi: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

    That sounds interesting. Besides digging into the original, we could read what another researcher has made of it:

    The implications for climate sensitivity of Bjorn Stevens’ new aerosol forcing paper « Climate Audit

    And it you wonder why I'd post a climate audit link, you haven't long to wonder:

    http://www.mpimet.mpg.de/fileadmin/grafik/presse/News/AerosolForcing-Statement-BjornStevens.pdf

    Stevens does not like his research being mis- (or over-) interpreted. So the field goes on, with people actually trying to narrow the uncertainties. Good on them. The only losers, perhaps, are those relying on affinity websites to explain scientific research.

    I think (have always thought) you are better off going to the original. I know that usually doesn't happen for busy PC readers. But bear in mind that affinity websites might sometimes get things just a tad wrong.

    do not know what that cookie thing means. In fact I copied the link from the Nick Lewis.

    the doi is 10.1175/JCLI-D-14-00656.1
     
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  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The link was fine. You can't set a cookie on the server, so the website you pointed to put it in the link. Just ignore text and click.
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Dangit, I still think the major climate-model problem is periodical sloshes of oceans, minor being clouds and CCN in the atmosphere, and the neglected third is terrestrial carbon cycling. I LIVE in the third. Stevens lives in the second, there within fighting misinterpretations as above.

    I have no idea, none whatsoever, who will improve ocean models within a climate framework. Lacking such there is no need to mis-represent predictions of climate models so far with playful graphs. Such models have simply failed to describe important details of T trends through time. What a shame.

    Another shame that some of us here imagine that +CO2 can do other than cause +T. Regardless, we are on a path towards 450 to 550 ppm CO2 by mid century. Helpful or problematical, that is our path. The big money has already spoken. Let us take that as so, and make the best of it.

    This may mean spending large on adaptation. It seems goofy to to take that money out of scientific research. Other, much larger expenditures present themselves. It would be 'FHO Politics ' to point at military or similar. Perhaps it would not be, to think about fossil-fuel 'financial incentives'. That industry continues to make a buck, whether oil sells for 100 or 50 per barrel. Someone else might make the case that they still now need unique treatment that made sense when that was a fledgling industry.

    We all need (depend upon) a growing human enterprise, but it is not clear that our current path is the best one. Changing paths means moving money to other purposes. Who defines the best path, do you reckon? IPCC, NIPCC, or another that has not yet stepped up?
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I agree that the 50 or so climate models have yet to converge to a single, definitive source:
    Models start small with gross results (i.e., imperfect) that improve over time. The difference between the model and reality leads to insights. So a more sophisticated (i.e., complex) model is generated in the next release. For example, weather prediction models continue to improve their predictive value and the differences with reality are used to refine them.

    I like the Berkley studies because they use the terrestrial temperature record and then compared it to the various models. I am also sympathetic that models designed to look for one effect, rain fall, could have different results than another when looking at regional differences. But even the climate deniers have published a CO{2} model without any feedback mechanisms (looks like curve fitting,) and they show an increase in global temperature. That battle is over, we're only discussing how soon.

    The more interesting modeling issues are handling the feedback mechanisms. Permafrost, a major or minor effect? That is were recent papers make interesting reading. But there is also beach erosion of permafrost coasts which appears to be new.

    Regardless, the total ice inventory is decreasing. Furthermore, the sea level is rising faster than the volume of melt water. The difference comes from warmer seas expanding. The only question remaining is how quickly will the rate increase.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    One might take, as null hypotheses, that neither T nor SLR will accelerate at all. That they would chug along at the rates of recent decades. In those cases, T in year 2100 (85 years hence) would be 1.43 degrees C higher, and SL will be 25.5 cm higher. I’d have to resort to my notes to do this hazardous extrapolation for ocean pH. Just put your expected end-of-century CO2 and solve the bicarbonate equilibrium equation.

    If those rates accelerate, well, it all depends. We have climate models that have not wowed the audience :) and they might speak to that. Although there are possible positive feedbacks not yet built into any model. Bob mentions coastal erosion of permafrost. Some Antarctic ice is also coastal and grounded below sea level. That is not a complete list, and the number of possible negative feedbacks certainly exceeds zero.

    Climate models are ‘not there yet’, but as we have reasons to think about the future, we have reasons to improve them. That is not news, so it is off-topic :)
     
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  17. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    That should be null with sea levels continuing to rise to where they were in the last 2 interglacials (about 6 meters higher). It is models that claim rapidly accelerated melts but these don't appear to be happening, but those higher sea levels look locked in even if man stops burning fossil C.

    +1
     
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I would call that something other than a null hypothesis. But anyway...

    About 14 thousand years ago was 'Meltwater pulse 1A'. +30 meters in 1000 years. With some trepidation we might consider that the 'speed limit'. OK, add more trepidation because prior conditions had more ice on land than now.

    Thus it is hard for me to imagine 3 m/century, starting from here. 1m/century triples the current rate. Such simple approaches don't provide tight constraints. An 'accurate' climate model would do better.
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Criticizing 'models' is where we'll have to agree to disagree:
    Berkeley Earth

    There is not just one model or all models returning the same result. There are nearly 50 models of which two are worth following:

    . . . NASA's "GISS-E2-H" model appears to replicate overall warming best, but is among the worst models at replicating regional trends. China's "FGOALS-g2" appears to be the best performer at replicating regional trends, but still over/under-predicts the warming trend by about 0.5C per century almost everywhere.

    More importantly, models are subject to change and corrections. Model authors respond to criticism and incorporate improved insights. So I'm patient as the models have already done the heavy lifting. As evident, even the "irreducibly simple" model claims the temperatures will rise.

    I won't rule out the Gaia hypothesis. It would be wonderful to discover that in spite of human agriculture and aquaculture there are other mechanisms ... say the weather ... that keeps our planet from another hot age and high sea level. Just our models haven't found that mechanism unless the climate change models are the DNA of Gaia.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #59 bwilson4web, Apr 12, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2015
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We know that CO{2} is not uniformly distributed but concentrated depending upon season and terrestrial activity. Although we like to cite numbers from Hawaii, the non-uniform distribution can easily effect solar energy collection in ways current models don't handle well. So OCO-2 is already providing a wealth of detail not easily captured before:
    OCO-2 News Articles - Orbiting Carbon Observatory
    • Amazon Absorbs Less Carbon Dioxide as Trees Die Off, Study Says
      The Amazon rain forest has long absorbed more carbon than it releases and acted as a vital brake on climate change. An extensive study now suggests that it is losing its ability to suck up the excess carbon dioxide being emitted into the atmosphere by human activities.
    • Emissions by Makers of Energy Level Off
      Somebody tapped the brakes. Carbon dioxide emissions from the world’s energy producers stalled in 2014, the first time in 40 years of measurement that the level did not increase during a period of economic expansion, according to preliminary estimates from the International Energy Agency.
    • Hidden greenhouse emissions revealed in new report
      Restoration of wetlands can reduce greenhouse gas emissions. This is shown in a report that has been written in part by researchers from the University of Gothenburg.
    • (and more)
    Germ theory was advanced when early microscope observed critters not easily seen unaided. That in turn led to significant advances in food storage and health. In like fashion, another orbiting earth observatory is providing raw data needed to refine our CO{2} models. Based upon what we now know, a 0.2C/decade rate may look to be the current rate but God's jester, Murphy, will no doubt change it.

    I play craps and know the difference between the house advantage and a lucky streak. CO{2} forced climate change is the house advantage but sometimes our planet is lucky.

    Bob Wilson