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Toyota New Global Architecture

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: After deep soul-searching in wake of millions of recalls, Toyota says it's ready to roll again | Star Tribune
    This is big because it offers to possibility of hybrids in more platforms. So the RAV4-e is replaced by a RAV4-hybrid. This begs the question of the Highlander hybrid future which was been a low volume but excellent field test unit for high-end hybrids.

    At age 65, I'm especially interested in the 'safety features.' My vision won't get better nor my reaction times. I want a car that automates a lot of mundane traffic tasks for everyone's safety.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Bob, I don't know about the hyhi . . . . but I swear, the RX/Lexus version is so production thick around the SoCal area, you can't cut thru them w/ a knife. Tons of 'em.
    .
     
    #3 hill, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  3. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Since its cited for one of the reasons for the delay, I'm sure the gen IV prius will run on the TNGA. This is following a VW way to lower costs and raise quality. It does forces some changes in the toyota manufacturing system (TMS) which has been a reason Toyota has been able to build reliable vehicles so cheaply.

    IMHO the HYBRID tag probably helped more in the past between the two we have had
    2011 16K
    2012 18K
    2013 18K
    2014 13K
    Which look very low compared to 34K in 2008. The problem is either the hybrid premium is too high, or fuel savings too small. That HYBRID badge was worth more in 2008, and fuel cost more too.

    Compare Side-by-Side
    Lexus NXh, Toyota Rav4 hybrid along with efficient cute utes like the cr-v with their less expensive hybrid system may pull numbers even lower. Alternatively the Highlanders high price may make the outlander phev look affordable.
     
  5. ggood

    ggood Senior Member

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    TNGA sort of confirmed for the new Prius:
    Toyota to Shift Half its Vehicles to New Platforms by 2020 - Bloomberg Business
    Kato refrained from discussing specific Toyota models, saying only that the first new platform will debut with a mid-size, front-wheel-drive vehicle this year. The company has said previously that the next version of its Prius hybrid, which goes into production this year, would move to the new strategy, known as TNGA.
    Toyota Unveils Revamped Manufacturing Process - WSJ
    Toyota said the first vehicle to be launched under the new program, known as Toyota New Global Architecture, will use a platform for midsize cars such as the Prius. Executive Vice President Mitsuhisa Kato said Toyota’s Lexus luxury vehicles also will be made under the system.
     
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  6. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    TNGA - should make the 4th gen Prius more affordable, more sustainable/repairable, and more reliable. SUVs are popular in DC because road quality can be very poor, the higher driver position allows for better vision of the oncoming traffic, and they are fast. A hybrid version of the Rav4 would likely be very popular in Washington DC Metro Area. ... I can see the local car dealership sales rep drooling now... :)

    I'm in Bob's corner with respect to likely needing a safer car ...or at least one that can drive itself. I can see the motor vehicle administration one day denying to renew my driver's license because they think my vision or hearing isn't good enough.

    ..
    @austingreen: between 2008Q4 and 2010Q3 - the global economy shedded many jobs -that unto itself hurt Prius sales. Before the Great Recession Toyota was even considering building a Prius plant here in the USA - but after the global economy tank they nix the idea; IIRC Toyota change the proposed Prius plant so now it makes the more affordable Corolla. Lower gas prices from 2008Q4 to 2010Q2 also made some question whether a vehicle with higher fuel efficiency was desirable.
     
    #7 walter Lee, Mar 27, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    better technological safety features would help negate the dangers of the poor visibility.
     
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I am quite aware of the drop in autosales but they have fully recovered, and hybrids sell in higher numbers than in 2007 (previous peak) and certainly much better than 2010. The RXh and HiHy have gone down while the rest of the hybrid market grew. I won't go into toyota not producing prii in the US, that was about closing down expensive NUMMI and keeping jobs in japan not that the US would not support a prius plant in Mississippi.. The hybrid premium on the RXh and HiHy are much higher than better selling hybrids. I hope that the Nxh and Rav4 hybrid do better than the midized hybrid SUVs are doing now, but if you really want mpgs you may want a smaller hybrid. I hope that the 4wd sells thoug and it trickes to the cars
     
  9. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    How about the Google self driving car? As I get older, my vision and reaction time changes too. Letting the car get me around seems like a nice alternative.

    DBCassidy
     
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  10. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Interesting that Toyota is quoted as saying the target increase in MPG will be 15% on hybrid models and 25% on ICE models. Even for an aspiration, those are nice increases.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i hope they already hit the hybrid target, since the r&d on the gen IV should have been wrapped up a long time ago.
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Making Ever-Better Cars: Toyota’s Progress Report
    My guess is that these figures are for the japanese not the epa cycle as this comes from japan. The number they have been talking about for the prius system is 10%. The new corolla eco probably has the pinnacle of toyota's conventional transmission efficiency, but TNGA has more efficient engines. Toyota's trucks and SUVs might get closer to that 25% ;-)
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sorry, the reference I saw was previous improvements, "has" in just the "powertrains":
    I think there may still be 15% to gain in the Prius by improvements in control laws, power electronics. But getting 25% into the ordinary ICE vehicles ... that will be a trick and greater threat to their competition than anything else. Maybe in some narrow power bands and perhaps by reductions in accessory loads but that is a stretch.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #14 bwilson4web, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    carbon fibre?
     
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Compare Side-by-Side
    In the bigger conventional vehicles 25% shouldn't be a problem. Look the new turbo charged aluminum body on steel frame f-series is 25% more efficient (EPA) than toyota's tundra. Its harder on a car, the camry is about 11% behind the accord/mazda 6 which use cvts and di to get more efficient. Toyota has access to all these technologies. But if we look at something like the corolla, its not going to get much more efficient. It already uses toyota's cvt tech, and the car is about being low cost so I doubt they will use more expensive technologies.

    I think the figures really are on the much easier japanese tests, I would not expect them on epa.
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    True but yet it has dual VVT-i and Valvematic.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    And the base trim still has a 4 speed automatic.
     
  18. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    Yeah -- that would be nice , but carbon fiber is expensive to mold and mass produce.

    I personally don't like steel being used for door panels and the side fenders because it does not resist parking lot dings, dents, and scrapes that well. I personally like plastic panels that were used on the old Saturns because the plastic door panels resisted parking lot dings, dents and scrapes better than steel.
     
  19. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    I'm hypermiling so my MPGs don't really reflect what normal people get. IMHO for normal drivers to get 8 mpg more than what they are getting now ... my guess is that Toyota will likely

    1) increase the gear ratio range of the CVT to get higher MPG on the highway.
    2) increase the thermal efficiency for the Atkinson cycle engine and emission system so it takes less energy during a cold start - my guess is that part of this will be done with improve insulation or improvements to the thermal recapturing system already being used.
    3) switch to a smaller lithium ion or poly-Lithum traction battery option
    4) switch to a more powerful and more energy efficient electric motor -
    5) improve the ICE power stroke efficiency by tweaking the valve and pistons .
    6) a Prius that is 500 pound lighter...


    Having driven a Prius for 5 years what I hope Toyota will consider for the next Prius design

    1) more ergonomic defroster/heater/air-conditioning control - using dials .Controls that light up with LEDs in the dark.
    2) flat exterior paint rather than exterior paints with metallic speckles in them - or plastic door and side fenders that resist parking lot dents and dings..
    3) a 12v power adapter that can handle tire air compressors (20 amp fuse)
    4) an *emergency* capable SUV crossover type Prius with AWD, 9 inch ground clearance. integrated Jump start cables that allow a crossover SUV Prius to give 12 volt jump starts to other cars, and an electrical generator port that turns the SUV crossover type Prius into a portable electric generator. The SUV crossover type should have a place to install a CB/ham radio/scanner and mount a CB/ham radio/scanner antenna.
    5) a properly hinged and secured oil change access door that doesn't fall off.
    6) a dashboard with a place to properly secure a GPS , ScangaugeII, and/or dashcam.... the current curved textured dashboard surface resist adhesive based mounts and suction cups mounts for third party navigational instrumentation.
    7) a place in the rear passenger area to properly secure a trash receptacle for messy kids... when I was shuttling kids in the rear seat - they didn't know where to put their trash....and neither did I.
    8) mooring hooks to secure a large dog crate when the rear seats are down ... I make it a point that dogs ride inside...but some dogs need a crate...
    9) obdII port hybrid diagnostic tool for independent mechanics to use that cost less than $400 so it is easier for independent auto shops to service the Prius.
    10) integrate an outside quick release 120V electric cable-port into the front fender that support the optional Toyota 400w engine block heater so if people forget to unplug the port before they leave the garage it will not damage the engine block heater system.
     
    #20 walter Lee, Mar 29, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
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