1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

What every new Prius owner, including me, should know

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by Dilante, Apr 17, 2015.

  1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,064
    14,970
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Anybody here not been talkin' 'bout cars?

    It's great you're interested in the car, and if you'd like to learn more about it, this ain't a bad place.

    -Chap
     
    Tamaruni and Coqui like this.
  2. Dilante

    Dilante New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    11
    2
    0
    Location:
    Ny
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Dear chapman,

    Thank you for your long reply, however, as nice as it is Im still at fault. I didn't say or ask anything wrong. Not at all. I posted under newbie, or was that missed somewhere? I don't know 12v battery, because im a newbie! I'm not an idiot, not capable of learning. But NEW wanting to learn from others, not be chastised by others.

    I do realize that you are trying to say the replies have experience and nicely say that I'm wrong and have attacked them, I havent.

    Rememeber this is A Prius chat, and this topic is for new owners to talk, not be chastised. The first poster to me yes was very offensive, but posted again saying they didn't mean to be. I understand, I really do, some people are just like that, give facts without realizing it comes across wrong without intending it. Then there are others.
     
  3. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    1,313
    888
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I'm an oldie, in more than one way, unfortunately, but i appreciated Chap's succinct summary of the 12-volt battery charging situation as it had stuff I didn't know.
     
    Tamaruni, Earthen, Coqui and 3 others like this.
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,035
    10,010
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    He has a particular personality, and is on here so much that he is often the first to greet newbies. Many of us regulars don't see him as offensive at all, just less helpful than you were expecting. 'Very offensive'? No.

    No, he is not actually telling you that you are off your meds, just giving you an example of what a real attack would be. Apparently he hit an extremely sensitive nerve.

    Many of us have been around long enough to have learned that people under the very broad and generic 'Toyota' umbrella display vastly different levels of competence. The corporate engineers are at one level. The corporate marketing folks are different. Then there are local dealership employees, who are so different that they must be identified by their position and specific dealership. It is crucial to note that dealerships are NOT subsidiaries of the company making the car, but are independently owned and operated, and don't report their financials or management controls to the manufacturer. In many states, this is even law, Toyota cannot legally own and run its own sales outlets, and has no control over dealership employee competence.

    Many of us have learned to never trust what an unknown salescritter says without supporting evidence. The general shop techs have a better chance of being right, but are still a lush fountain of misinformation. Prius-peaked techs are much better still, but the overall community here still learns things that not all of them have learned.

    Many of us have engine monitors (voltmeters and a whole lot more) that tell us what the charging system is doing. That is why we know that JC91006's reply was correct. If you want a battle of authority, your first step will be to get far more specific about your 'Prius dealer' source. That is far too generic. Is that person a salescritter? If so, no further discussion needed, we have heard thousands of whoopers from them. Is it someone with a master tech certificate on hybrids? That would be more interesting.
     
    #24 fuzzy1, Apr 17, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
    Tamaruni, Earthen, Coqui and 2 others like this.
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    definitely thick and crusty though.:love:
     
    Tamaruni likes this.
  6. roamerr

    roamerr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    135
    42
    0
    Location:
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    On a Prius note the positive is the 12v battery doesn't require
    Much charge to start the vehicle. It does not power a starter motor like a normal car.


    iPhone ?
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,600
    8,034
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    The down side - as many have mentioned, is that Toyota chose to NOT use a 12v battery with "cranking" amps ... because it doesn't need a lot of umph. So if/when you leave the dome light on ... or listen to the stereo in aux mode ... maybe while changing oil .... boom your 2, 3 or 4 year old battery can be mortally wounded WAY too easy. DON't get the OEM 12v battery as it's unnecessarily expensive. Your local parts house can easily match the oem size with a 12v that has cranking power ... and then you won't accidentally kill it if you use it as a stereo or other 12v source.
    .
     
    #27 hill, Apr 19, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2015
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i put a bullet through mine, it was no accident.
     
    benagi likes this.
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    The dealer is wrong. That is pretty common

    OP: your 12v sounds to me like it should be replaced. Admittedly it is not too old, but it may have been drained one too many times before you took ownership. As others have mentioned, the battery does not have a lot of capacity and cannot tolerate insults very well (that is, unexpected drains from leaving a load on by accident for hours.)

    Regarding vendor choice, I take the opposite view of 'Hill' and buy from the dealership. I like the 84 month warranty.
     
    #29 SageBrush, Apr 19, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2015
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,064
    14,970
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    What you're thinking would be helpful here, actually would not be helpful. You can put 12 volt lead-acid batteries more or less into two categories: those that'll be used to start big engines and need to supply a lot of cranking amps for really short periods, and those that will never need to do that but instead support steady loads for long periods (think boat or RV house batteries, or batteries for storage in a solar installation).

    Starting/cranking batteries have one kind of life. They often get called on to deliver many hundreds of amps to crank over an engine, but only for the matter of seconds it takes for the engine to start. So they lose a few hundred amp-seconds of charge and then get immediately topped back up once the engine is running and turning the alternator. The alternator may deliver only a tenth of the current that cranking demanded, so the topping up will take several tens of seconds instead of just seconds, but there you have the life of a starting battery in a nutshell: a very small amount of its total charge gets repeatedly drawn off in an intense but short burst of current, and almost as quickly put back again each time. The discharge/charge cycle is very shallow.

    Boat and RV house batteries have a very different life: they never need to supply heavy cranking amps, but they usually get a good full charge and then have to run steady loads for a substantial time before getting charged again. That's why another name for those batteries is "deep cycle".

    Now what's interesting is what battery manufacturers do to make those two different kinds of battery. A battery built for deep cycling will have thick, heavy lead plates, because the chemical reactions that go on during deep discharging and charging attack the plates over time, and their thickness increases their lifespan under those conditions.

    When building a battery that needs to deliver lots of cranking amps, the manufacturers go to the other extreme and build it with many more plates: more plates => more surface area => more electrochemical reaction in a given amount of time => higher cranking current capacity. The thin plates are also much less able to withstand deep discharge. The only time cranking batteries get deep-discharged is by accident or neglect, and it doesn't take many times to ruin them.

    So, Toyota made the right decision not to go for extreme cranking amps in the Prius aux battery. Not only does the car not need them for anything, a battery optimized for high cranking amps will be even less durable, and more easily damaged by accidental deep discharge. A battery that is more of a deep-cycle design is what's appropriate for a Prius.

    Now you might wish they had just gone for a bigger capacity, deep cycle type of battery - not made for bigger short bursts of cranking amps, but just for more total amp-hours of discharge capacity. That's just another design tradeoff. Most people probably don't need a high-amp-hour aux battery because they don't intend to run electric loads for long periods in ACC when it's so easy to just use READY and not worry about discharge. So the usual risk to the aux battery is still accidental discharge, and a bigger heavier one might take longer to reach full discharge, but whether that makes any difference depends on how soon you come back to the car after accidentally leaving stuff on. Meanwhile, a bigger heavier battery costs trunk space and MPGs the whole time you're lugging it around back there.

    -Chap
     
    Tamaruni, Evan78, gsmckee and 4 others like this.
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    It is, and you can get informed advice here like just about no other place. Like hearing about smart chargers and battery minders.

    It would be a mischaracterization though to say that people want to spend their time spoon-feeding you.
     
    Tamaruni, Earthen and PLSPUSH like this.
  12. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    729
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Maybe the OP shifted to N when idling?
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,600
    8,034
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Sage, let me amplify that, so it sounds a little nicer. We do like spoon feeding. And that's why we write it down for others to find. Its called Prius chat, but the chat is in writing so we don't have to repeat ourselves a hundred or more times, because that kind of perpetual restating gets exasperating. It's like nobody bothers to see what you've already memorialized. So you see - if people want to get too sensitive - both the ask'er and the answer'er can get their shorts all bunched up - for their own so-called valid reasons. Both sides need to show grace.
    Peace & love.
    .
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i don't mind repeating myself, it's everyone else who has a problem with it.:cool:
     
    raewu and benagi like this.
  15. MeetGeorgeJetson

    MeetGeorgeJetson Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    48
    33
    0
    Location:
    Woodstock NY, USA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Hi All- Just got my new, well, used 2011 Prius 2. Only 23400 on the odo so pretty new car all things considered. SO what is the best way to listen to music while waiting for my kid to come out of her acting class? Pull up into the parking lot, hit the PARK button then leave the power button where it is? Assuming all the electrical stuff is off, lights, fans, etc.. should the AUX battery be enough to run the stock radio safely for awhile in any mode? I just saw under another post how to see what the battery is doing, so I will go out later and check it out. By the way thank you Chapman, that was an excellent primer on the battery differences.
     
    Tamaruni likes this.
  16. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,463
    8,377
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Yes just leave it in park and let the car remain the READY mode. With a near full battery, if the AC/HEATER is not on, it should give you about 30 minutes before the engine kicks in.
     
  17. MeetGeorgeJetson

    MeetGeorgeJetson Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    48
    33
    0
    Location:
    Woodstock NY, USA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Thank you much, JC! I like your Avatar, gotta upload one of my own..
     
  18. ITgem679

    ITgem679 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2015
    73
    17
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I really appreciate this. It's thoughtful an concise - people in this busy world who are used to "normal" cars would think that you start it up and let it run to charge the normal battery...Thanks for the info!!!
     
  19. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,463
    8,377
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    So many dog avatars, this could be dog chat soon
     
    Coqui likes this.
  20. PLSPUSH

    PLSPUSH Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    359
    132
    0
    Location:
    Tulsa, Okla.
    just got on to add my avatar to the conversation
     
    Tamaruni, Coqui and m.wynn like this.