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"Triangle of Death", no codes and takeoff shudder

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by BigVanMan, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. BigVanMan

    BigVanMan Junior Member

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    Good afternoon all. I am a recent first time owner of a high mileage first gen 2001 Prius and I love the car and what it represents. I absolutely love this forum and thank all members for the experience and knowledge they add. I had the benefit of reading the post on "Who should not buy.." a first gen Prius, and I still was not deterred on purchasing one since I feel I am a good candidate for an owner. I will try to condense this down as much as possible.

    About myself: I was a driveability automotive technician for 13 years before switching to the software industry. I kept my own set of tools and work on my cars regularly. I consider myself a die hard DIY'er and tinkerer.

    About the car: Purchased with 225K on the clock Summer of 2014 from owners who cared for their car, but just could not justify the costs of keeping it. We were told the car had the traction battery replaced a couple of years prior. Since then I have replaced the radiator/condenser (radiator had a leak when we bought it), ICE water pump (just because the radiator was out), belts, oil, trans fluid (w/ pan gasket), spark plugs, PCV, oil/filter, air filter and cabin air filter. If we can get this car to 300k, I will be happy.

    Problem: Recently while driving it, I noticed an odd metallic (tinny) sounding whine when I decelerated and shortly thereafter, the dreaded "triangle of death" on the dash and console display. I drove home w/o really noticing any issues aside from a shudder on takeoff from a stop. Of the three icons seen on in-dash screen only the car/exclaimation point icon is red (the PS and Main Battery icons are not red). I scanned for codes with my ELM-327 and smartphone and found only emissions related codes (P0420 and P300s). I cleared the codes and those have not returned. I can drive the car, but have limited it to nearby 1-3 mile trips. Based on what I have read from the forum, I suspect this is the MG2 stator shorting based on the shudder and deceleration sound. I don't believe any transaxle work was done according to the previous owner. My question is what is the best way to test the existing stator to confirm this is the problem? Also, I am thinking of doing the work myself using the "new" Dorman 587-990 stators. Anyone heard anything bad about these units?
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you need a toyota specific reader, software and a laptop.
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I'd really recommend that you read the codes from the hybrid-vehicle ECU that are causing the triangle of doom to pop up. With an Elm 327 you should be able to read these codes, but you may have to tell it where to look. The HV ECU is at address 16 (hex) using ISO 9141-2 at 10.4 kbaud. Most scanner software will just send a "mode 03" request, which only asks for emissions-related responses. By sending a direct "mode 13" (hex) request, you can get the HV DTCs, as discussed here.

    Are you sure you didn't disregard some HV-related codes? You said "P300s" ... P030x (zero after the P) would be run-of-the-mill engine misfiring codes, but the Prius does have some hybrid vehicle codes that start with P300 (no zero after the P).

    -Chap
     
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Take off shudder is not good, sounds like a bad MG2
     
  5. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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    best guess from the whinny sound and shutter would be a bearing in the "transmission" is gone and its overheating causing the red triangle but no codes but I have never owned or worked on a gen one prius
     
  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    When I had a bad mg2 on my Gen2 car, there was the whining noise and transaxle shudder present.
     
  7. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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    oh..ill go sit over there >>>> and be quiet :)
     
  8. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    The good thing about the Gen1, you can replace mg2 without taking the transaxle out of the car.
     
  9. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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  10. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    $2533 repair charge from Luscious.......that's when you have to think whether to fix it or leave it.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The codes will give us a good idea which tree to bark up.

    -Chap
     
  12. BigVanMan

    BigVanMan Junior Member

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    Chap,

    Thank you for the link and the specifics on how to pull the hybrid specific codes. I will try that tonight.

    In regards to the codes, I am certain they were P030X series codes (misfire) and not P300X codes. I was actually looking for P3125, P3000, P3009 and P3191 or similar codes since that is what Markus Reynolds saw with his MG2 replacement. Perhaps I will see similar codes once I configure my ELM correctly.
     
  13. BigVanMan

    BigVanMan Junior Member

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    Agreed. A new MG2 stator at $550 + type IV fluid and coolant sounds a lot more reasonable to me.
     
  14. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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    I assume the parts were new and the labor was about $100 an hour..on a car that old Id hit the junk yard and do the labor my self or not do it at all..
     
  15. BigVanMan

    BigVanMan Junior Member

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    Thank you everyone for your comments and feedback. Unfortunately after a week or so of local driving only (no highways), I still can't get the check engine light to come on and reveal any codes. It looks like I am going to bite the bullet and purchase one of the new Dorman stators based on the driveability symptoms alone (shuddering at takeoff and decel whine). I will post pictures once it arrives.
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The best test is to read out the engine (ICE), MG1 and MG2:
    • Normal: ICE > MG1 > MG2
    • MG2 burn: ICE > MG1 << MG2 (temperature > 100C)
    Bob Wilson
     
  17. BigVanMan

    BigVanMan Junior Member

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    Thank you again Bob. I have not yet checked temps, but I finally found what I was looking for. My wife took the car out on the highway and the check engine light came on after some odd acceleration problem. Codes logged were a P3125, P3120, P0300, P0301 and P0303. It appears as though the MG2 stator is the primary culprit. I already have a new one on the way. Not sure if the misfire codes are being logged because of the MG2 because I changed out the plugs less than 10k miles ago and normally the ICE runs smoothly. I will check for water in the plug wells though.

    I am hoping to get the new Dorman stator in by this weekend. I will update this thread when it comes in. Thank you all again for your expert advice.
     
  18. BigVanMan

    BigVanMan Junior Member

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    I received the new MG2 stator yesterday 4 days after I ordered it. It arrived in good shape and included 3 alignment dowels to install it. Pictures of the unboxing have been uploaded to the "1st Gen MG2 New" album under photos. I will be installing this tomorrow.
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Looks promising!

    Hey, aren't the alternate languages on the box label doing genitive sort of backwards? Are they saying "transmission of stator" instead of "stator of transmission"?

    They need to pay their translators more.

    -Chap