1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

help. sludge.?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Al's Auto, Apr 24, 2015.

  1. Al's Auto

    Al's Auto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    5
    1
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    I have a 2009 Toyota Prius and I've been having some problems with oil gunk. I drive about 250 miles each day I change my oil once a month at 5000 miles and only use full synthetic oil, I've use mobile 1 and Castrol either way, full synthetic always. I've been driving 250 miles each day for about 16 months. Usually know more than most about these cars. I have a first generation and working on the second generation is nearly the same. My oil never gets too dark before I change it and lately I've been seeing a lost of oil in my dipstick. There's no leaks whatsoever anywhere around the car, the oil it seems to be inside the motor. When I take out the motor oil only about a quarter comes out and three quarters seem to be in there. I threw about a 2 or 3 motor flushes there and ran it for about 5 to 10 minutes and it all seemes to leave the engine. The quarts of flush plus what was left inside. I put new oil in it and waited one week and I lost a quart of oil on the dipstick after I drove it for five hours. I waited another week and I lost half of the oil in there, even after the car being completely warm. Never stop driving it still collecting gunk. I ended out doing the very same flush and now I'm waiting to see how much I lose in a week but it seems to making gunk in there very quickly. The more I drive the quicker the gunk gets there. I'm on point about it as soon as I see oil being lost I've flush that out the last two times but I'm not sure where I'm going with this. The oil isn’t being burned because its still coming out when I do the flush. The car has about 170,000 miles I bought it with 80,000 miles one year ago and I haven't had any problems. I could vouch for the true performance of the Prius just because having the first two generations and knowing that they can last for more than 200,000 miles easy. I'm almost knocking on 200,000 miles on my second generation and I'm getting worried that the motor might not make it. After all this time the battery seems to be working well and inverters charging the battery like it's a brand-new car. Is completely original I am the second owner. Really hope somebody could help me about this I'm not sure what to do, other then pull out the valve cover and the oil pan and start cleaning it from the top or the bottom. Want people to understand that I've never let the oil get too dirty so it's not a case of me changing the oil I do it myself and I'm happy to do it because it's so damn easy. I even changed to 4000 and they look clean. The funny thing is that even after I drive for so many hours the engine doesn't get hot it seems to feel normal if you're not checking the dipstick you would never notice that it's collecting oil or check how much oil comes out when you change the oil. The way I found out is just measuring how much it comes out right then and there you could see that it's too little coming out. Sorry for the grammar but someone please help me!!
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,861
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    you could drop in a low mile motor quick and easy. i don't recall reading about a problem like yours before.
     
    #2 bisco, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  3. Easy Rider 2

    Easy Rider 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    1,584
    257
    0
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    I am totally confused here.
    It seems to me like you are equating oil loss to the accumulation of sludge in the crankcase.
    Not so. Two entirely different things.

    A certain amount of sludge accumulates in the engine of every car ever made and 99.999% of it never causes any harm.

    What doe cause harm is running solvents in your engine which breaks down the oil and scores the pistons and bearings and maybe even damages the seals.

    If this is not just a complete troll job, I think you are KILLING your engine by screwing around with it........and are listening to the wrong people.
     
    edthefox5 and valde3 like this.
  4. Al's Auto

    Al's Auto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    5
    1
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Let me clear things up so you understand what's going on. Lets say I changed my oil every 3 weeks, which is about 4500 miles for me. I pull out the dipstick and what do I see? A quarter of the the dip stick has dirty oil, which leads me to believe where are the missing 3 quarts of oil that I put in there 3 weeks ago? Gen 2 prius takes 4 quarts BTW. 100% No leaks! no smoke from the tail pipe! I'm not going put another 3 quarts of new oil on top of the 3 week old oil, i'm going to do an oil change. If I unscrew the oil plug I only get 1 1/2 quarts of oil. Very easy to check by the way since my oil bucket has measuring level inside of it. What would anyone do? I flushed it with motor flush, If anyone put 4 quarts back inside an engine that just released 1 1/2 quarts of dirty oil I think that's worse than the flush. If I were to put 2 motor and run it for about 5 to 10 min and release the plug, I get the 2 motor flush and then some more. The rest I get is about 3 quarts which only leads me to believe its the old oil I put in there 3 weeks ago. Why an I gunking up so quick? The first time I did this, I replaced it with new thicker oil since it's high mileage 10w30 full synthetic and drove for about 2 weeks which for me is 3000 miles and the dipstick reads half of where it should be. I did this again and 2 quarts came out. I have to flush it! I can't just keep adding oil if no leaks of burning of oil. If oil is there the 3rd time i'm pulling off the valve cover and oil pan and see what's going on. Can anyone relate?

    Do you mean like replace the motor? How quick and easy do you think it is?
     
    #4 Al's Auto, Apr 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2015
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,861
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    there are some threads here if you can find them. i haven't done it myself, but it doesn't seem that difficult for the shade tree mechanic. if you're not comfortable, shop around for labor. you don't need a hybrid mechanic for this one, but you do need someone capable of downloading toyota service manual and maybe tech stream software.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,861
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    if i understand you correctly, the oil is gumming up so thick, (or perhaps it's being retained behind clogged ports) it doesn't drain out, but does after the engine flush breaks it down. it's certainly something i've never heard of, and short of a solution, engine replacement may be the best alternative.
     
  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,309
    3,586
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    It's not unusual for some high mileage Prii to start consuming more oil. In this case, I normally recommend Mobil-1 5W-30 High Mileage which is formulated to reduce leaks. I might try some of the expensive Redline just to see if it has some ability to clean things out. Years ago when they filled with Mobil-1 they'd sometimes do a flush fill to get the dino oil out, which is not needed today but in this case It might be instructive to see if something is emulsifying in the oil. Clean oil will separate with water etc easier.

    Sounds like something stranger is happening here. I do not know if its possible for coolant or gaso to get in. Check your spark plugs in case they are loose and letting oil sneak out. Mobil-1 I am quite experienced with, not so much Castrol I would keep the same brand to avoid compatibility issues, which is unexpected but at least keep that variable out of it. Also I don't know what your filter change policy is but I change that every fill until I sorted out the issue.

    Use care not to overfill....my 2006 takes just 3.25 quarts or so
     
    #7 wjtracy, Apr 25, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  8. alekska

    alekska Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    435
    138
    0
    Location:
    Atl
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    What Is the level of the oil on the dipstick right before you do the drain?
    Are you draining the warm oil or cold?
    Do you know that it's exactly 1 quart between Low and Hi marks on the dipstick?
    Where do you get your oil from? Is there any chance it's counterfeit?

    Alex
     
    #8 alekska, Apr 25, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  9. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,463
    8,377
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I believe Al is reading the dipstick wrong. Lost of a quarter of the oil on the dipstick does not equal 1 quart of oil. Not seeing any oil on the dipstick also does not mean there is no oil present in the engine.

    On a gen2 car, the 2 level marks on the dipstick equals only 1.6 quarts of oil
     
  10. Easy Rider 2

    Easy Rider 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    1,584
    257
    0
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    No Al, wrong wrong WRONG.
    It seems that you think the missing oil is being boiled down into sludge.
    THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
    The engine flush chemicals are more harmful than they are good.

    The missing oil IS going:
    Out on the ground through a leak that only drips while the engine is running
    OR
    It is being burned in the engine because of worn rings or worn valve guide seals.

    You have some really unusual ideas about how engine oil works.
     
  11. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    7,842
    3,099
    0
    Location:
    Honolulu, HI
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    How does an engine leak oil to the ground only when it is running? Even if that were so, it would continue to drip oil after it's shut down.

    Also, the OP claims he is draining out more oil than he puts in (oil plus flush solution) following a flush procedure, so how can you claim he is wrong? Were you there?
     
    Al's Auto likes this.
  12. Al's Auto

    Al's Auto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    5
    1
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Listen buddy I will say it the last time. The oil is in the engine. There is no leaks and it's not burning, I have made sure if it. I'm not making this up, the oil is coming out when I flush it point blank! I don't care what anyone says this is what's going on. I don't drive like a normal person so lets take that under consideration. No oil leaks! No Burning! Wth would you do If the motor oil isn't coming out? how the hell could put 2 quarts of flush and when I drain it out again and get more than 2 quarts. Obviously It must be the old oil that was in there. Look Easy rider 2 I'm not over thinking anything. This is what I'm getting and I'm recording it.

    No oil leaks! No Burning! Wth would you do If the motor oil isn't coming out?
    No oil leaks! No Burning! Wth would you do If the motor oil isn't coming out?
    No oil leaks! No Burning! Wth would you do If the motor oil isn't coming out?
    No oil leaks! No Burning! Wth would you do If the motor oil isn't coming out?
    No oil leaks! No Burning! Wth would you do If the motor oil isn't coming out?
    No oil leaks! No Burning! Wth would you do If the motor oil isn't coming out?
     
  13. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,463
    8,377
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Do you remove the oil fill cap before draining?
     
  14. Al's Auto

    Al's Auto New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2015
    5
    1
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    I know its not but your correct. I'm rounding the numbers alittle but it's true. In the 2 weeks that I put about 3000 miles in there, about less than half the dip stick had oil in it. When I flush it I get it back for sure. It's starting to concern me, I don't want to blow a gasket or overheat the car.

    Yes I did and the dip stick too. I do It everytime

    Yes this is correct, I get it to come out when flushed. You know I think that I drive so much that the gunk is softer than a person that only drives very little and it gets hard. I'm just spitballing here but it's amazing that the oil eventually comes out with a quick flush. I would think that the gunk would be harder to come out after time. I never let the oil get super dirty in the year that i've put 90000 in butthe last 2 oil changes have been completely weird.
     
    #14 Al's Auto, Apr 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2015
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,309
    3,586
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Engine on Prius can be fairly cheap if you get it off EBay

    Meanwhile let's hope something funny can be fixed.
    Check your coolant level should look full and red color.
    Check you plugs. Maybe replace cheap on Amazon $25 bucks some have put em in too loose and then oil came through.
    What gaso are you using? are you adding any additives to oil or gaso?
     
  16. Easy Rider 2

    Easy Rider 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    1,584
    257
    0
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    You don't have to be there to know that what he is saying is just extremely mis-guided.
    Under normal operating conditions, engine oil just does NOT boil down to sludge.
    Most of the sludge that does occur is a combination of various contaminants like carbon and dust.

    P.S. Places in the engine that are pressurized will leak under pressure but maybe not leak when the engine is off and the pressure disappears. Front and rear mains come to mind.

    I would find out WHY and not take a wild guess and probably make matters worse in the process.

    And I know that you think your process of analysis is perfect and has no flaws but you are wrong.
    You don't KNOW that no oil is being burned. How could you possibly know that ??

    I quit. Pointless to continue.
     
    #16 Easy Rider 2, Apr 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2015
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,861
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    al, what product are you flushing with?
     
  18. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    16,463
    8,377
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I think it's time for a new engine.

    Or your filter needs to be changed more often. It's probably clogging up and being bypassed. I would try changing the filter every 500 miles. Try that for 3000 miles and then change the oil.
     
    #18 JC91006, Apr 26, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  19. Easy Rider 2

    Easy Rider 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    1,584
    257
    0
    Location:
    Ocala, FL
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    Well NONE of that, including what he is doing, will solve his problem if some pieces of something has broken off and is plugging up the oil passages somewhere. The gravity returns from the cam/valves causing oil to pool up in the top of the engine for instance.

    I'm pretty sure that a plugged filter or one stuck on bypass will NOT cause the oil to look low, nor will it prevent all of the oil from draining out through the drain hole.

    He has a potentially serious problem here and what he is doing is likely NOT helping the real problem at all.

    And he also needs to learn that it is quite possible, and fairly common even, to be burning oil at a slow rate with NO apparent symptoms.

    At this point, I don't know why he even came here to post in the first place.
     
    valde3 likes this.
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,861
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i think he was hoping to find some help from someone who had had a similar experience.

    probably why he posted in the 'sludge?' thread.