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2008 Prius Still Not Starting

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by hermes, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. hermes

    hermes Junior Member

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    2008 Prius with 105k miles was throwing code (P0A92) and had accompanying grinding/crunching noise. Intermittently, the HV battery would drain down and the car would have difficulty starting. The car was stranded in the middle of a 2,000-mile trip in October after extended use of the A/C, and was left at a friend's house until February.

    After weeks of arguments with local Toyota dealerships, who refused to listen to Toyota's national service representatives and demanded that we purchase a replacement battery for $3,000, I purchased and installed a HybridAutomotive grid charger. The Prius started and drove, but lost power about 10 miles into the drive back. Being in a hurry, we resolved to return with a trailer and tow the car back to my shop.

    A replacement, low-miles transmission was installed per directions in the FSM. There was some trouble getting the inverter pump to bleed (I ended up taking off the return hose & pouring coolant backwards through the pump), and I had to swap in a spare 12v battery due to the old one being discharged. The car showed codes C0205 and C0200 (left front wheel speed sensor signal malfunction, right front wheel speed sensor signal malfunction), but no other issues.

    About two weeks and 3,000 miles into the transmission swap, the battery I'd swapped in would no longer fire up the computer. A test showed the battery I'd swapped in (which I purchased in 2005) was only outputting 300 CCAs (out of a rated ~1,000). The Prius accessory battery was charged and reinstalled. The battery started the car, but would often need to be charged overnight in order to start the car (even though it would pass voltage and CCA tests). When the car won't start, attempting to jump it off another car doesn't work, and the battery had given readings as low as 10.5 volts, indicating a bad cell.

    Yesterday, I had the car's owner run the in-car test procedure. Voltage was 12.3 without load, 12.0 with load. The third test could not be completed because the car shuts down. As the voltages were slightly low, the battery was replaced under warranty, but the car is exhibiting the same symptoms with the new battery. I'm now suspecting a bad inverter and/or failed inverter pump. More updates later today.
     
  2. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    When you say the third part of the test could not be carried out because the car "shuts down" could you clarify this? Do you mean the engine turns off or do the systems shut down so there is no dash illumination (MFD, speedo, or ready light)?
    Cranking amps have little to no relevance to the Prius.
    When you try to jump start the car are you connecting to the battery in the rear or the jump point under the hood?

    John (Britprius)
     
    #2 Britprius, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  3. hermes

    hermes Junior Member

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    She's been jumping it directly to the battery in the back.

    A correction/clarification: the systems haven't been powering down, but the power button will turn orange and the shifter won't put the car in drive or reverse, only neutral and park.

    Occasionally the car will run fine but the dash lights won't come on (for the entirety of the drive). Connections were tightened on the auxiliary battery and the intermittent dash illumination problem seems to have gone away.
     
  4. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Seems like you've had a lot of plates spinning not only in diagnosis but in attempted remedy.
    Which can make tracking down the problem or problem(s) sometimes more difficult.

    Also, I'm a little unclear. You own a shop, but this is NOT your car?

    Grid Chargers, Replacement Used Transmission, and if I'm reading right you swapped out the old aux battery...with a 10 year old "new" aux battery?

    Given your ability to spin all these plates...and your willigness to do so, I'm assuming you know more about fundamental repair than I do.

    But at some point don't you need FULL remedy instead of make-shift half measures? Otherwise you're just in a process of exchanging one ghost in the machine for another potential ghost in the machine. That can spiral out of control.

    Best of luck. I'll be curious as to what direction this goes in.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    is it under warranty?
     
  6. hermes

    hermes Junior Member

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    My partner owns the car and works in North Carolina/previously lived all over the Southeast/is currently in South Carolina. She may post from this username at some point, since the car's currently with her. I have a shop in West Virginia. So I'm trying to diagnose it remotely. I'm hoping to get maintenance mode voltage results, and results from an OBDii scanner later today. The 10-year-old battery was the only AGM battery I had on hand at the time. The car had also given other signs of a dying 12v battery, e.g. "Caution: The transmission lock mechanism is abnormal. Park your car at a flat place and apply the parking brake completely."

    It's a few thousand miles out of warranty. It may have been under warranty when a dealership charged $800 to "fix" the problem last summer, though I'm not sure exactly what they did. They accidentally left their diagnosis in the car, which has "replace transmission" circled on the last page, which they clearly did not do (angry MG1 crunching noise persisted, car continued to drain HV battery). Toyota's national consumer complaints hotline told me that dealerships are independently owned & operated and there's nothing they can do about bad service. Maybe she'll take something up with the Better Business Bureau.

    Afternoon update: auto parts place says the battery has a full charge: 12.84v, 428cca (rated 325). Car still won't go into drive/power button lights up orange. Auto parts place says it's the alternator or the starter :p
     
  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    What OBD scanner is being used? Most will not read the Prius specific codes.

    John (Britprius)
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if the tranny is bad, unfortunately, it's not covered under the hybrid warranty.
     
  9. hermes

    hermes Junior Member

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    That surprises me that a hybrid generator failure wouldn't be covered under the hybrid system warranty - can anyone verify this? And, sorry if I didn't make it more clear in my first post, but I already replaced the transmission with a low-miles transmission.

    It seems that disconnecting the battery for a period of time will allow the car to run and drive. I'll have the owner put the car in maintenance mode and test that the inverter is working in "ready" mode.

    It'll probably be a week until we're able to have codes pulled at a dealer. John, do you mean that a non-Toyota-specific scanner can't read subcodes, or that there could be codes stored that won't show up at all?

    The car had a new issue tonight: it wouldn't turn off. Searching the forums points to the problem potentially being the combination meter.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, you need mini vci to get the sub codes and troubleshooting tree.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    We talk so much about the Mini VCI any more that other options can get overlooked. A ScanGauge II can also read Prius codes and subcodes if you know what ECU addresses to use and queries to send, and there are threads here on PriusChat where that information has been collected. Also if you know what you're doing, any ELM327-like adapter that you can connect to with a computer and a terminal program, again provided you look up what commands to give the ELM to get the required information back - some threads exist on that also. It's just that Techstream on the mini VCI just makes it all show up for you on a nice friendly screen.

    -Chap
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The transaxle is covered under the 5 year/60K mile powertrain warranty. Even if the car had been covered under that warranty, if the transaxle had been replaced with a used unit, then the warranty would no longer be applicable (assuming the Toyota dealer tech figures out the installed transaxle is not original equipment.)

    A generic OBD-II code reader will typically ignore DTC logged by the traction battery ECU and skid control ECU, just to give two examples. It may not display the alphanumeric DTC logged by the hybrid vehicle ECU, as another example, instead displaying bogus codes.

    Mini VCI is an excellent choice as an OBD-II code reader for Toyota vehicles, since it provides the same diagnostic power as is available to the Toyota dealer tech - it basically is pirated Toyota Techstream running on a Windows XP or Windows 7, 32 bit OS laptop.

    It is better to install a non-AGM 12V battery that works, than an AGM battery which is near-dead. However I understand you have now installed a new 12V battery.

    I am wondering why DTC C0205 and C0200 are being logged now. If these are new codes, then was some damage caused to those sensors or the associated wiring when the transaxle was replaced?

    Your original post says you suspect the inverter or inverter pump. If the car will run temporarily after disconnecting the 12V battery, then the inverter is OK. Look at the inverter coolant reservoir for fluid turbulence when the Prius is READY. If you see this then the pump is working fine. If you do not see turbulence then either the pump has failed or you left air in the inverter coolant loop.

    Also, measure voltage across the 12V battery when the Prius READY. You should measure ~13.8V which shows the DC/DC converter in the inverter is working. If the voltage is much lower then the DC/DC converter has failed or the DC/DC 100A fusible link has blown.

    If you cannot get the car to IG-OFF, that may be a symptom of a low 12V battery (regardless of how new it may be), and its voltage should be measured now. Hold the POWER button down for several seconds and the car should power down.
     
    #12 Patrick Wong, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015