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First-time Prius owner, looking for hypermiling tips

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by swineone, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. swineone

    swineone Junior Member

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    Hello,

    I'm a fairly experienced hypermiler, having reached as high as 80 mpg on my wife's '06 Fit MT with 1.3l engine over an 80 mile highway trip (filling up with Brazil's sorry excuse for gasoline, which was E25 at the time and now E27). I finally fulfilled a long-time dream of mine, having traded my wife's Fit for a 2013 Prius -- one of probably less than 1,000 to be found in Brazil.

    Although we've barely filled a full tank in it, I already reckon it's going to be a challenge getting the same mileage as people appear to be routinely getting in it. Part of this can be attributed to the obscene amounts of ethanol blended with the gasoline over here, but even accounting for the lower fuel energy content, it's not going to be easy.

    Most of our trips are very short -- my commute is 3 miles, and my wife's commute is about half that. In fact a 5 mile trip would be a fairly long one by our standards. We live in the middle of the city, so with every trip we can count on obstacles every few hundred feet -- a combination of difficult to time lights, stop signs, speed bumps, cars parked in the middle of the street forcing a lane change and so on. By the time the car is finishing its warm up process, most of our trips are usually almost over. Also, our region is rather hilly, to the point that the car often suffers to climb many of the hills at 20 mph if trying to keep within the eco band. In fact I find the car extremely underpowered even close to the top of the eco band -- although I wouldn't be surprised to learn Toyota was forced to severely cripple the engine to deal with all the ethanol blended into the gasoline.

    Having researched a bit about Prius hypermiling techniques, for city driving I have figured that a pulse and glide technique is the most indicated, with a pulse close to the 3/4 mark of the HSI. Regarding highway driving, I've read about the pulse and warp stealth technique, as well as superhighway mode. In addition, I've watched a video of Wayne Gerdes teaching someone to shift into neutral for gliding, which I understand is called "warp neutral" by some. Which leads to my first question -- is shifting into neutral really better, and does it apply to low (< 45 mph) as well as high speeds (> 45 mph)?

    I'm also interested in strategies for avoiding excessive gas usage during the warmup period. Should I start the car and let it idle until it reaches 40ºC/104ºF, or should I get the car moving immediately and try to accelerate gently during the initial warmup period? Or even, should I follow a regular pulse and glide routine with brisky acceleration?

    Surely there will be many more questions later, but these are a good start to try to achieve some halfway decent mileage.

    Thanks in advance to anyone who replies.
     
  2. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    Welcome to PriusChat, and you're sure to find all you'll ever need to know about hypermiling techniques as well as links to other hypermiling sites. Lots of tips, too many to mention here, but I will remind you of the need to have very light right-foot, as well as always try to remember that use regen braking is better than using friction brakes, is better than stopping (IOW try to avoid coming to a complete stop (it's all about inertia!)) - try driving in bare-feet, or pretend there is an egg between your foot and the go-pedal. hope this helps - Wil
     
    #2 WilDavis, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    With your short commutes, your car's pretty much warming up the whole time. Maybe you guys could carpool: take your car one day, your wife's the next, drop each other off and pick up?
     
    #3 Mendel Leisk, Apr 28, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  4. swineone

    swineone Junior Member

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    Unfortunately that's not practical for us -- the both of us work weird hours (and different weird hours from each other), and often need to run errands during the workday.

    However, at night and during the weekend, we try to use her car only, both because it uses less (and cheaper) fuel than mine, and so that there's a chance the car hasn't cooled down completely between trips.

    Still, I'd like to know what's the most advantageous strategy for warming up -- avoid pushing the ICE because it's not fuel efficient while cold, or try to get it to warm up quicker so I can enjoy better mileage sooner? What about idling it in the garage rather than get it moving right away? My reasoning here is that, because of the lower efficiency while cold, even more energy would turn to heat than usual, so wouldn't it be better to use it just to warm up the engine, rather than trying to use it to push the car in an inefficient manner? Also, while the car is stopped, the radiator won't work against the warm up process, because there's no wind hitting it, which would lower the coolant temperature.

    An engine block heater is not really practical here -- we live in an apartment and there's no outlet to plug it into in the garage, plus the relative cost of electrical energy vs. gasoline would probably translate into a higher overall cost when using the engine block heater.

    Anyway, thanks for the suggestion.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome! whats the temp like there?
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I was gonna say block heater next, dang.

    Bike or walk on nice days? I know, lame, lol.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I know, and it's so obvious: quit your job and get one further away. Or volunteer for the branch office. ;)
     
  8. swineone

    swineone Junior Member

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    It's currently in the sweet spot for hypermiling, hovering around 25ºC (77 ºF), quite a bit warmer near noon, and a bit colder at night and early morning. So not cold enough to affect MPGs, but not too warm to require excessive A/C (except around noon). It's going to get colder in the coming months -- I would venture an average around 5 to 10 ºC (41 to 50 ºF) on the coldest days of the year.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    grille blocking might help a little then. we've gone round and round with this before. the fact is, you're getting better mpg's than most cars, even with the short trips. are your tyres pumped to the max?
     
  10. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I tried some hypermiling on way to work and found it a distraction: Looking down to instant mpg gauge to see if it's EVing. I found it to make me less safe and be distracted from my main goal of being safe while driving.
     
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  11. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    Distracting???
    …but once you get the feel of it, it's actually quite easy to sense exactly what is going on as far as what is going on re. ICE and the electric motors and regen, so I find it quite possible to hypermile without needing to constantly look at the gauges, but of course, as they say Your Mileage Might Vary!!! :D (at this point, I would say hope this helps, but to be quite honest, I don't really care… …i.e. I've found what works for me, so good luck in your quest!) - Wil
     
  12. swineone

    swineone Junior Member

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    I don't mean to say I'm getting bad MPG, far from it -- my wife has seem an instant 40% increase compared to the Fit (from 23-24 mpg to 33-34 mpg), at least according to the trip computer, and she drives the car as if she stole it. Never mind that this car has nearly 140 hp compared to the Fit's 82 hp, and she's not afraid to use a fair bit of that power. Hopefully, if she is open to some lessons on efficient driving, she can coax an extra 20-30% more mileage out of it. Having read about people in my country who barely get 10 mpg (with pure ethanol fuel, E100) out of an underpowered 1.8 l GM minivan, I'm truly thankful for this car's FE.

    On the other hand, I can't help but feel envious of the mileage so many people here seem to get, even at freezing temperatures (even with slightly longer trips, surely the warm up problem is just as bad if not worse in these temperatures), and I think it's safe to assume part of it has to do with my technique.

    Part of the problem may be that I'm still adjusting to the car's characteristics (slow acceleration if keeping within the ECO range, plus higher weight than the Fit), so apparently I tend to overshoot my pulses and underestimate how far I can glide. I took a short 1.5 mile trip today, 50% level ground and 50% downhill, where I tried to cut my pulses "short" and pay extra attention to anticipate traffic, and I managed to reach 80 mpg. Usually I'm pretty good at anticipating traffic, but driving this car is yet to become second nature to me, so I find that I'm too focused on the car itself and not planning ahead enough, but this should fix itself in time once I gain more experience behind the wheel of the Prius.

    Oh, and before I forget, I've pumped my tires to 42/38 psi front/rear, cold. It already feels like driving a go-kart with no suspension (thank the crappy roads around here), so I don't plan on going any further -- in fact I may have to back up slightly to see if the ride is noticeably more comfortable without a huge drop in FE; I'm thinking 40/36 or something like that. My tires are Michelin LRR (Energy XM2 195/65R15, I don't think these are sold in the US).
     
  13. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    BTW I run my tyres at 46 (front) and 44 (rear) (front should always be at slightly higher pressure than rear (according to those who know about handling etc.)) -
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    FWIW I dropped our 215/45R17's to 34 psi all around (spec is 33/32, front/rear), near the beginning of current tank, and mpg doesn't appear to have suffered, about halfway thru the tank. I think the suspension (and my butt) appreciate it, too.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the trouble with pulse and glide during warm is that the engine stays on, which really defeats the purpose. i read somewhere that you can shut the car off during warm up, if you know the stages, and it will not continue to warm. i think bob wilson may do this, not sure though.
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Bisco are you thinking plug-in?
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not that i recall, are they different?
     
  18. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I tried some more hypermiling on way home and I probably picked up a couple MPGs (60.0 for day 30 mi r/t), but the penalty seemed to be going a little slower overall and one thing I don't like .... a reluctance to use the brakes early on the freeway (lots of slowdowns that can easily lead to rear end collisions). Hypermiling videos talk about 'keeping your momentum' ... Isn't this akin to using brakes less if possible?
    I see brake lights ahead on freeway, and 'hypermiling' tends to make me use the brakes less or use as little as possible. Reduces the margin of safety. Safer to brake early and leave plenty of room in front of my car.

    Maybe hypermiling is more 'fun' in rolling hills of rural areas, but in the grind of SF Bay Area traffic with gobs of cars everywhere, hypermiling just does not keep my interest. An electric car would seem less headache than to fixate on the MPG gauge.
     
  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    It sounds as if you misinterpreted the hypermiling concept of DWB, driving without brakes. The real point of avoiding braking, is not to avoid the braking itself, but instead to avoid having burned the last portion of gasoline prior to that braking.

    Don't ever avoid braking when safety suggests it. Instead, each time you brake, ask yourself if that braking was avoidable by letting off the gas earlier (or by using less of it), or by leaving more space. If so, then try to do that next time. Not all braking is so avoidable.

    In those freeway slowdowns, don't wait until the last moment to brake, because you are very likely to have to scrub more total speed. If braking earlier allows you to delay catching up to the slowdown, and thus scrub less total speed, then by all means brake earlier. This is similar to timing stoplights, where the idea is to delay arrival at the stoppage long enough that a full stop is no longer required, because the red light has turned green and traffic is moving again.
     
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  20. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I drive among traffic to 'keep the pace' with others on the road. I'm not saying you're not saying this.
    What I think causes problems in crowded freeway traffic is the occasional cars that do not keep pace with those ahead of them (i.e. car one lane right of fast lane has 20 car lengths of space in front of them) Result is other cars get frutstrated and starts whupping around to get ahead.

    Anyhow, I'll be better off just driving the way I drive. 52 MPG isn't too bad for lifetime mileage, although the mild weather here and my 14 mile trips help.