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Gen4 Prius ICE Details: 40% Efficiency

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by SageBrush, May 22, 2015.

  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Next Toyota Prius Hybrid: 40-Percent Thermal Efficiency From Engine, Toyota Says

    Nothing said about direct injection, the improvement appears to be related to EGR. My back-of-the-envelope arithmetic says the ICE improvement is good for up to 4 MPG in a prius -- about an 8% improvement presuming an average 37% to 40% jump.

    Wayne Brown's ever so useful energy chart at different speeds
    Prius Palm Mileage Simulator

    tells us that highway driving at 70 mph consumes 250 Wh per mile while driving at 55 mph consumes just over 200 Wh. At 40% thermo efficiency about 13,500 Wh make it to the drivetrain, resulting in fuel economy of 54 mpg at the higher speed and 66 mpg at 55 mph. The actual results may actually be somewhat better if other improvements have been incorporated since the Gen2 design Wayne tested.
     
    #1 SageBrush, May 22, 2015
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Owch!

    The end of April, I searched the USA based SAE site for Toyota papers and only found one minor paper. Usually Toyota has a set of papers on the new Prius discussing the technology. Now it might be the papers have not been indexed but I've also been aware there is a Japanese SAE and they just finished their Spring conference. Sad to say, I could not easily find the Toyota papers on the Prius at that site, yet.

    If anyone has any luck finding the Toyota paper, I would appreciate a link.

    Engines hold a special place in my interest and the cooled, recirculated exhaust is important but the article also references to swirl. I'm especially interested in the variable valve timing, angle and duration, because this holds the promise of further reductions in throttle-plate, pumping loss. However, there are often papers that discuss associated system control laws that improve total vehicle improvements. Often an article about a technology highlights the 'awareness' of the article author who may not share my understanding of ICE technology.

    Thanks,
    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  4. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    A measurable upgrade to the Atkinson cycle motor design. which translates to at least 10% improvement in MPG - especially during the winter time. . this motor will be Toyota's first stand-alone Atkinson cycle motor design .. Toyota. plans to put this motor into non-hybrid cars in Japan... when this motor hits the asphalt it will be very interesting ..
     
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  5. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Combustion Development to Achieve Engine Thermal Efficiency of 40% for Hybrid Vehicles

    Takahashi, Nakata, Yoshihara, Ohta, Nishiura

    This paper describes some concepts like high tumble that are able to expand the EGR limit and to realize the engine thermal efficiency of 40%.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Is it just me, or does a casual skim of the wording in the reports infer a 40% increase in efficiency? Say compared to an alternative where they say:

    Next gen Prius engine's thermal efficiency raised 1.5%.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The paper provides a lot of details lay reports (even mine) miss:
    • high tumble means more, cooled EGR can be used reducing the exhaust temperature, a major energy loss
    • higher tumble and EGR ratio means a hotter spark is needed
    • combustion is faster so the spark needs more energy to avoid arc blow-out
    When we got our 1.8L Prius, one of my earliest benchmarks looked at EGR ratio as a function of rpm. The peak was about 3,100-3,200 rpm which remains my peak engine rpm when climbing hills or accelerating. But one thing bothers me.

    "Figure 1. Engine operation range for different drivetrains" suggests the improved efficiency shows up at ~7kW (~10 hp) and above. To exploit this higher efficiency range, minimize engine operation under 10 hp. This suggests the Prius needs a wider and deeper operation of the hybrid drive system in the 0-10 hp range with attendant stress on the traction battery.

    This same figure also compares a "MT" and "CVT" transmission and it shows a significant advantage of an "MT" in the 12 kW ( 16 hp) range. At lower and higher power ratios they are nearly equal. So why report "MT" unless . . . there might be a manual transmission version?

    It took me nearly three years to finally understand Toyota's CVT. But an MT could eliminate MG1 saving weight or lead to a stronger MG2. The 'clutch' and shifting mechanism of an MT could be awesome.

    This is from just a screen-read. I've usually found a paper copy read gives even greater insights.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  8. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Min 10hp threshold has been true since Gen1 Prius with 1.5L. With, 1.8L, they had to do EGR to reduce pumping loss further to maintain that 10hp. With improvement in EGR, Gen4 may be a bit better.

    Interesting comparison with the MT transmission. Perhaps, it was used in the graph to show how efficient the new eCVT.
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This is the figure we're discussing:
    [​IMG]
    • I suspect Consumer Reports 'testing' will go GA-GA over this. I've long suspected CR's MPG test involves significant power mode. I'm not sure if they floor it but would not be surprised.
    • Regardless of transmission type, the "operating line" is going to be the real tell.
    • This chart extended to maximum power would be very interesting.
    Bob Wilson
     
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  11. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Ok, so they are just comparing Manual, CVT (mechanical) and HV (eCVT).

    At 10hp, ICE is about 35% efficient but the Fuel Consumption Ratio (system efficiency?) is about 17%. That means eCVT takes 50% loss?
     
  12. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    The throttle is mostly taken care of on C and likely Gen3. For most ICE runs with manifold pressure close to atmospheric with plate open 30-70%
     
  13. Stevevee

    Stevevee Active Member

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    I wasn't aware that anyone at CR knew how to "floor it". ;)
     
  14. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    I am reading there is no DI. They say mixture flow, so it looks like port injection to me
     
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  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    any data on MG sizes? increased? kWh of the traction pack?
    .
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm not sure the data supports this. I just printed off the paper and can now do a 'proper read.'

    Strange, I suspect younger folks who learned to read on the screen have higher reading rates and comprehension than us 'papyrus' trained, old farts. <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
    #17 bwilson4web, May 26, 2015
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
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  17. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I was just going by the two charts you posted. The top one said ~35% BSFC. Bottom one said ~7% (looking at it again, it is no way 17%) at the 10hp line.
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I don't understand the lower graph.
     
  19. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I understood it as the percentage of power that makes it to the wheels.

    In another word, transaxle efficiency. Perhaps, Bob can post more detail what it means.