1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Gen4 Prius ICE Details: 40% Efficiency

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by SageBrush, May 22, 2015.

  1. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    3,524
    981
    8
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    no one can without the legend.
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,146
    15,402
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    There is only one paragraph with three sentences for these graphs:
    [​IMG]

    Figure 1 shows the operation area of a HV engine and of a conventional engine. - This refers to the upper graph, an engine efficiency chart.

    It can be shown that the HV engine uses higher brake mean effective pressure (BMEP) area and higher engine thermal efficiency area compared to conventional engines. - Good hybrid runs the engine in the fuel-efficient power range and banks the excess power in some form of energy storage, a traction battery. Then when the battery is charged enough, the engine is turned off.

    Therefore improving the maximum engine thermal efficiency leads to better fuel economy of the hybrid vehicles. - It follows that a more efficient engine will have greater, total efficiency in a hybrid . . . assuming the control laws are aggressive.​

    I see nothing in the paper that tells us how to interpret the lower chart. So this is my thinking:
    • "HV" line - if the car has a 'x' MPG at any given power setting, the y-axis percentage calculates the expected improvement. For example, at 15 hp (~12 kW) there should be just under 40% MPG improvement. I would expect at 55 mph (~15 hp load) and ~60 MPG, the car should get 60 + (40% * 60) ~= 84 MPG. This would be awesome and put the EPA numbers on their heels. Even at CR's 65 mph highway test, 52 + (30% * 52) ~= 67 MPG. We are talking efficiencies in the low-range of EVs!
    • "MT" and "CVT" are relative transmission efficiencies but not well explained.

    Occam's razor: the bottom scale is off by a decimal point.
    "20" -> "2.0"
    "40" -> "4.0"
    "60" -> "6.0"​

    Now everything makes sense. Otherwise, we'd be talking 'cold fusion' level of efficiency improvement. <GRINS>

    FYI, I am trying to ask the authors for more details about the lower chart.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #22 bwilson4web, May 27, 2015
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
    Sergiospl and telmo744 like this.
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    That would indeed be awesome but probably way too optimistic. If we start from 40% thermo efficiency, about 13500 Wh leave the engine from each gallon burned. At 84 MPG, that works out to 160 Wh a mile at 55 MPH.

    Perhaps USB was on the right track and the lower graph shows improvements in the drivetrain after the ICE. Torque split change, anyone ?
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    11,627
    2,530
    8
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I'm now more convinced that the top figure is the ICE and the bottom figure is the the remainder of the drivetrain. So what is the denominator in the bottom figure?

    I suspect each drivetrain alternative at a fixed output is compared to varying powers. I'm still stumped by the range on the Y axis, but if higher numbers are better then the ICE and the transmission efficiencies are in sync.
     
    #24 SageBrush, May 28, 2015
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,146
    15,402
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    The correlation is OK but the % units on the Y-axis do not make sense. But my interest is in projected vehicle MPG as a function of ICE thermal dynamic improvement.

    Here is another approach:
    • 38% - base performance of ICE becomes 100% performance of base vehicle
      • 100%/38% scaling factor, ~2.63 (nondimensonal)
    • 2% ICE efficiency * 2.63 ~= 5.26% vehicle MPG improvement
    Now this makes more sense than trying to use the unknown Y-axis values of the second chart. More importantly it can lead to credible MPG projections over my 2010 benchmark:
    [​IMG]
    A few projected data points:
    • ~100 MPG (true) @25 mph
    • ~92 MPG @30 mph
    • ~80 MPG @40 mph
    • ~66 MPG @50 mph
    • ~60 MPG @60 mph
    • ~55 MPG @65 mph
    • ~44 MPG @75 mph
    This is outside of any vehicle drivetrain, rolling drag, and aerodynamic tricks. Add advanced power electronics and control law optimizations . . . it has a good chance of achieving current PIP-like performance in the base car.

    Bob Wilson
     
    SageBrush likes this.
  6. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    3,292
    547
    0
    Location:
    2014 Prius c
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Don't forget weight savings. Promised 20% should be good for 8.3% alone improvement