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Course code: Denial101x, April 2015

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Dec 30, 2014.

  1. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    I am not debating whether its accurate or not and calling my point a "red herring" is a great way to discount me. It really reminds me of when people say "your a lunatic". That's a great way to have a debate isn't it???

    Making a graph from 1900 to 2015 is all well and good to show me what happened during that era but, without data from before that, how do we know this is not a natural cycle in the life of the earth??? Without data from the lifespan of the earth, we cannot know (which is why I say GW can be neither proven nor disproved and will ultimately lead to an endless debate. Kind of like what would occur here if I kept responding but do not have time to do).
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This particular falacy comes under "Misrepresentation" because it claims "profits" are not associated with "more money:"
    All we have to do is ask Mr. Google for how Charles Koch gets his profits:

    Koch Industries, Inc. /ˈkoʊk/ is an American multinational corporation based in Wichita, Kansas, United States, with subsidiaries involved in manufacturing, trading, and investments. Koch also owns Invista, Georgia-Pacific, Molex, Flint Hills Resources, Koch Pipeline, Koch Fertilizer, Koch Minerals, and Matador Cattle Company. Koch companies are involved in core industries such as the manufacturing, refining, and distribution[1] of petroleum, chemicals, energy, fiber, intermediates and polymers, minerals, fertilizers, pulp and paper, chemical technology equipment, ranching,[3] finance,[citation needed] commodities trading, and other ventures and investments. The firm employs 50,000 people in the United States and another 20,000 in 59 other countries.[4]


    In 2013, Forbes called it the second largest privately held company in the United States (after Cargill), with an annual revenue of $115 billion,[5][6][7] down from the largest in 2006. If Koch Industries were a public company in 2013, it would have ranked 17 in the Fortune 500.[8]


    Fred C. Koch, after whom Koch Industries, Inc. is named, co-founded the company in 1940 and developed an innovative crude oil refining process.[9] His sons, Charles Koch, chairman of the board and chief executive officer, and David H. Koch, executive vice president, are principal owners of the company after they bought out their brothers, Frederick and William "Bill" Koch, for $1.1 billion in 1983.[10] Charles and David H. Koch each own 42% of Koch Industries. Charles has stated that the company would go public "over my dead body".[5]

    Koch is making a lot of profit, a huge profit, by selling fossil fuels. Someone has to be funding the anti-climate change professionals to fool the others into wasting their time denying climate change is CO{2} based. Even paranoids have enemies. <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    So if I don't believe like you do, I'm wasting my time?
     
  4. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Bob, I love you but, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
     
  5. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I'm definitely now here to slam, but some further justification of your points is needed. Notice that I am avoiding stating an overall opinion about the subject and sticking to basic physics a chemistry.


    What makes a bunch of temperature measurements unprovable? You provide no mathematical basis for statements that can be proven or disproven mathematically with precision definitions. I will agree that as long as you fail to provide any definitions of what "GW" is, then proving or disproving something totally undefined is not only possible, it is trivially easy. If I say "GW" is the result of 1 degree C increase over 10 years using an average of 10000 air temperature measurements at uninhabited locations distributed over the globe, then we can say either GW is happening or not. Or we can argue about the methodology.

    Sure there is. The same concept was true with modern medicine replacing leeches for addressing diseases. It is just that education take time. Lots of time.

    Short supply is different than no supply.

    What can be done is continue on the path we are starting to follow. Sustainability does not need to be economically painful. Driving a Prius is actually vastly more enjoyable than driving my previous car. This is far from a final sustainability solution but one of many steps in the right direction.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    In the 4.6 billion years of Earth, surface temperatures have gone from (initial) molten rocks to (apparently) totally ice covered. This is an enormous range, and important to know, but not particularly relevant to climate now.

    More relevant are temperatures since humans became dependent on agriculture. Whether this is 10,000 5,000 or 3,000 years depends on where you look. For most of that time, T comes from proxies that have limitations but are subject to improvement. This also seems suitable to address the range of natural variability over 'civilization' time scales.

    Most relevant is the time during which agriculture-dependent populations got really much larger. I will suggest 1.5 billion people, which corresponds to the instrumental T record.
     
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  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Wow, FL, one degree in ten years? That is certainly not something to happily anticipate.
     
  8. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Did you word that correctly? (Obviously my focus is on the principal, not the numbers yet.)
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In Denial 101x, we start with "5 Characteristics of Science Denial" because this what happens when a group of people attack scientists, those who think empirically. John1701a did a similar analysis of hybrid skeptics. So one of the first steps is to come up with terms that accurately describe the phenomena. But it sounds like you don't see it:
    The usual reason for looking at the paleo-record is to identify climate forcing events. For example, a volcano, a period of solar minimum, or some orbital mechanics. Establish a basis for "2000 BC" and we'll have some confidence this was not just a "red herring" tossed out.
    There is an excellent thread discussing the Paleo-record here: PAGES 2k Paleoclimate Network | PriusChat

    You probably want to start with this post in the thread: PAGES 2k Paleoclimate Network | PriusChat . Your choice.
    Instead of relying on your "belief", try empiricism by bringing facts and data. One of the things addressed early in Denial 101x is we're open to an alternate explanation that has the same characteristics as the ~1 C increase in global temperatures seen in the last 150 years. So far such claims have yet to 'hold water.'
    No problem. I first came to PriusChat because I was curious about the Prius. But having 'green' thrown in my face by hybrid-skeptics has raised my interest. Denial 101x provides insights and tools to address these claims.

    You might try the course as anyone can audit the course with 2-4 hours each week over the 7 weeks . . . if you have the time.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Class notes Week 5:
    • 2 * CO{2} alone -> 1.2C (2.2F) increase
    • " with amplifiers -> 1.5 -> 4.5C
    • Approaches: Paleo / Climate Models / Simple models + current data
      • Paleo records are not today's earth
      • Climate models may omit hard to quantify elements (i.e., permafrost CH{4} release)
      • Simple models + current data may not project to longer time lines
    • CO{2} ~= 0.04% of the air
    • Water vapor amplifies global warming since it is a greenhouse gas and increases with GW
    • +1C from CO{2} => +1C from water (dependent on CO{2}, not independent!)
    • CO{2} triggers water and are both amplifying
    • lower clouds in daylight over oceans, high albedo (reflection) a cooling
    • high clouds, lower albedo but more greenhouse heat trapping
    • 10-15 years of observations over the ocean
      • mixed results, neither positive nor negative for limited data
    • Paleo records suggests the large temperature variations were not moderated by clouds
    • Both suggest clouds won't counter act GW
    • Climate models indicate clouds are an amplifier of GW
    • Methane clathrate, +500m ... hummm, solid at 39F (?) under pressure
    • < 1% would double the earths methane
    • 1,000s of years for heat to reach them
    • in the sea, it absorbs O{2} (the Gulf 'dead zone'??)
    • Siberian shelf is shallow and showing evidence of methane release (Russian Arctic side of Bering Sea)
      • We don't know sources and no historical records
    • No evidence of catastrophic clathrate release
    • Climate models suggest more aridity even though the water cycle is faster
      • evaporation increases faster than rain fall increase
    • CO{2} remains for centuries vs water vapor lasting a week
    • Ice feedback is << water vapor
    • Models suggest increasing troposphere thickness leads to higher clouds and more cloud warming
    • Contrails vs 9/11 and cooling over USA?
    • Edge of the tropics has been moving outward for past 30 years
      • Models do not address this, looking at clouds
    • Rain changes are faster than models predict
    • Natural selection
    • 5 mass extinctions
      • mostly volcanic: initial cooling from dust followed by heating from CO{2}
    • 1st 445 m years, 86% went extinct, Ordovician Period
      • ice age -> volcanic -> 1 m years warm period
    • 2nd 360 m years, 75%, Devonian
    • 3d 250 m years, 85% "the Great Dying"
      • massive volcanism > sulfur ash -> global cooling and acid rain
      • later, the CO{2} cause global warming, methane from oceans possible
    • 4th 200 m years, 80%, Triassic
      • large volcanic eruptions
    • 5th 65 m years, 76%, Cretaceous
      • volcanic and meteor
    • 6th extinction (?)
      • normal ~40 species/year
      • past 1,000 years, 25 times as large (1,000 species/year)
      • past 500 years, same as past extinction events
    • current rates of fossil fuel increasing >> than volcanism
    • risk is biodiversity (every critter is a bunny, every plant a danilion)
    • mass die-offs in fruit bats at ~42C
    • as climate change occurs, the early threatened boundary is where the species first disappears
    • flower - pollinator synch
    • divergent ice regions, shore ice disappears first
    • convergent ice regions
    • archipelago ice
    • Western Hudson Bay seasonal ice, -22% polar bears in 30 years
    • Beaufort Sea, divergent ice, -40% in six years
      • 1600 in 2004 -> 900 in 2010
      • 2 of 80 cubs survives versus normal 50% survival
    • Polar bear hunting has been replaced by loss of sea ice for bear hunting seals
    • 70% is ocean, $20 T/year
    • coral < 0.1% yet generate $29.8 B of global benefits for 850 m people
    • ~30% of human CO{2} absorbed by oceans
      • lower pH
      • lower carbonate ions for skeletons and shells
    • 10,000 years to reverse as requires erosion of alkali materials from land
      • 300 generations of humans impacted
    • 0.1 pH decrease which is 26% decrease in carbonate ions
    • rate of pH change is faster than in the past 65 m years, possibly 300 m years
    • 5th extinction impacted corals for 10 million years, 40 times longer than human existence
    • oceans at 8.1 pH (alkaline)
    • oceans threatened by temperature and chemical effects
    • Barrier reef coral has dropped by about 1/2 since 1980s
    • current rates match expected mass extinction rates
    • at 1.5C, more water stress from: droughts, heat waves, and floods (aka., Texas!)
    • at 2C, coastal flooding, coral reef loss, 1 m by 2100, 30% extinction
    • 3-4 C, corals are toast, 40-70% extinction path
    Taking a break.
    • 2007 is a pollutant, Supreme Court
    • hotter air holds more water so when it rains, it pours
    • plants are sensitive to extremely hot days
    • northern migration of pests seen
    • "Years of Living Dangerously", movie?
    • 1 m sea level rise displaces ~200 m people
    • glaciers are a water resevoir (aka., California snow pack)
    • Peru
      • 34 million people, 50% living mostly living in deserts
      • 76% electricity from hydro power
    • Tibet and another glacier based society
    • 2003 heat wave in Europe, 35-50,000 excess deaths
    • Expansion of malaria mosquetoes
    • costs go up faster than the temperature increase
    • (Lycinkoism by the deniers)
    • Are weather events being affected by climate change?
      • 385 (95%) - yes
      • 4 (1%) - no
      • 16 (4%) - not sure
    • More rain and snow in areas that are cold enough
    • Wetter areas get wetter and dryer areas dryer
    • 5-20% projected increase in floods
    • Study reports heat-waves are 4x more likely
    • weather "weirdness" without backup
    • nights warming faster than days is a signature of man-made GW
      • heat can not escape at night
    • tool: Scorcher
      • shows Aussi temperature data for past three months
    Taking a break before summary and test.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #50 bwilson4web, May 29, 2015
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The final assignment:

    Debunking and Peer Assessment Length: 300-500 words
    Response Due: 8 June 2015 at 06:00am UTC
    Peer Responses Due: 15 June 2015 at 06:00am UTC
    Marking: 30% of your grade in the course (10% for completing practice assessments and 20% from the median score of the marks from peers)

    FINDING A MYTH

    We have provided two methods to help you to select a myth to use for this assignment.

    - select a myth from the Myths in the Media discussion forum
    - select a myth that you have found yourself while searching the internet

    FACT-MYTH-FALLACY STRUCTURE
    The structure of your response will not follow that of a traditional essay that contains an introduction, thesis, body paragraphs and a conclusion. Instead we ask you to follow the structure discussed in Week 6 of the course and employed in the lectures that preceded it. This structure is that of Fact-Myth-Fallacy.

    First, you will need to identify the Fact that replaces the Myth. This portion of your writing needs to include a scientific fact that is an alternative or replacement for the myth. For example, if the myth was, “The sun is causing global warming,” the alternative would be “human activity is causing global warming.” Try watching a lecture and asking yourself, “What is the fact that is mentioned early in the lecture?” Your fact needs to be “sticky”, meaning it is simple, clear and memorable (see the Sticky Science lecture in Week 6 for six characteristics of a sticky idea).

    Second, you should identify the Myth you have selected. Be sure to state the myth as concisely and accurately as possible. If you have found an entire article or website that is devoted to the myth or contains multiple myths, please select only one myth or the most simplified representation of that myth. Include information about where you found this myth (website url, title of the article, author of the article). Before mentioning the myth, give a cue that you are about to mention the myth (this can be as simple as, “One myth says…”

    Lastly, explain why the Myth is incorrect and identify the Fallacy present. Identify and explain the myth using scientific facts, clarifying how the myth distorts the fact. Then provide a simple way for readers to correct this myth in their minds. This might take the form of a detailed metaphor, an example or a catchy phrase to help them correct their misunderstanding.

    HONOR CODE
    It should go without saying, but we would like to remind you of the first point in the edX Honor Code Pledge:

    By enrolling in an edX course, I agree that I will complete all mid-terms and final exams with my own work and only my own work. I will not submit the work of any other person.

    Please make sure that any work you submit for this assignment contains your own ideas and writing. Cite information that needs citation and acknowledge all research appropriately.

    PEER ASSESSMENT
    As you review the work of your peers, it’s important to understand and recognise the challenges created by peer assessment. As you read the work of others, be kind and considerate. Remember that this is a course that contains participants from all over the globe with different levels of expertise in both writing and science. Reward the honest effort of students and do your best to provide a fair appraisal of their writing. You will note on the rubric that grammar, spelling and style are not marked. Instead we ask you to focus on the elements of the rubric and mark accordingly.

    MARKING
    The entirety of peer assessment is worth 30% of your mark in the course. This 30% is broken up into two different assignments. 10% is devoted to practice and 20% is devoted to the median score from the marks given by your peers. You can find more information about the practice and about the assessment rubric in the next units. Please understand that peer assessment is a new online learning tool that we are excited to share with you and realise that we cannot control the exact grade you will get as a result of this process. However, your ability to pass this course should not be jeopardised by this process or this assignment. Instead of focusing on the exact grade you earn in the course, it’s more important to focus on the learning you have completed throughout the course.​

    This could be fun.

    Any suggestions?

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    My first thought would be to go for somewhat obscure. But what would that be? 800-year CO2 lag in ice cores? Missing mid-troposphere hot spot?

    Second thought is to play against form. Is it a myth that climate models can forecast decadal T lacking adequate parameterization of ocean dynamics? Is it a myth that atmospheric water vapor can amplify CO2 sensitivity, without making quantitative predictions of how much water vapor will increase? It gets rained out, and probably more so in a more energetic atmosphere (more CAPE). Take the water vapor figure from the latest JAMS climate assessment (which was a smallish increase over 15 yrs IIRC) and see if any models match that.

    Anyway, don't pick an easy target like CO2 absorption is already saturated. It would be beneath you.
     
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  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    +1

    D*mn it! You know me too well!

    If I were challenging myself it would be:

    "FACT: Sea level is the earth's thermometer"​

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    How about addressing a readily defined myth-category: 'whenever a brief 'reversal' occurs in trend(s), some view it as proof that the underlying trend has been falsified’.

    The Tanana (Alaska) river ice-out date went way cold (2013 or 2014? I forgot). Since has returned to the longer trend line.

    ARGO sea-level rise took a brief dip.

    Arctic sea-ice extend had a brief uptick.

    Any coolish year after 1998 (a couple of minor La Ninas).

    I think there are several other members of this group. Would not include polar bears (some populations up, others down) because the overall data coverage is incomplete. Would not include ‘big snowstorm disproves global warming’ because it is not a global trend reversal.

    Actually the biggest problem is to cram a coherent essay into 500 words! I bet if you wrote powerfully they would not disqualify 550 words. You need a ruthless editor. I know several ‘in the business’ who work for $50hr :)

    ‘We choose to write this essay, not because it is easy, but because it is hard’.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    ROTFLMAO!!

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Too late for new topics now. Best be makin' with the qwertyuiop.

    Bob is not allowed to post here until the essay is complete. And there had better be a reference section :mad:
     
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  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Anyone not in Huntsville AL might read this:

    Why Creationism Belongs in Science Class | RealClearScience

    (restriction applies until 8 June)

    The whole 'critical thinking thing' involves recognizing strengths and weaknesses of data (and models), looking for concordance (or its absence) among data, exploring causative mechanisms (especially those based on math, physics, chemistry, etc.), and proposing hypotheses that are amenable to quantitative testing.

    In full gory detail, it is likely to be beyond students in most cases. I don't see this as elitism; I see it as realistic assessment of brains residing in 10-to-20 year olds. At the very least, we should recognize that many other fascinating things are competing for 'space' in those brains.

    Brainwashing, group think, appealing to authority, and all like that are not part of critical thinking. I would not expect much disagreement on that point.

    But the thesis here is that examples (paths) that don't fit well with critical thinking are just as likely to present 'teachable moments' as would science's many successes. That leaves unmentioned science's many failures! One of my favorites is Mendeleev's first periodic table of the elements. It contained many substantial errors. However, it also provided a framework in which such errors could be corrected, so Dr. M. gets all the credit.

    Link advises us not to fear discussion of creationism, because (a) many people embrace it, and (b) it can provide teachable moments. So, we could extend the idea to 'other than mainstream' views of climate science.- nothing to fear there either.

    As of today, to states providing textbooks considering non-mainstream views, I say 'bring it on'..This requires teachers to have skills enough to guide the discussion. Maybe we don't yet have that in all cases, but it looks like a good goal. Teaching is not imparting a point of view, it is developing a way of knowing and understanding. In all those brains on the other side of the Big Desk. Students who disagree with ME may very well improve the enterprise, after I become tree food. Bring it on.

    I see aspects of this in the "Denial' course, but also an urge to burn the heretics. Dr. Cook is free to teach as he sees fit. Yet, perhaps the moments are just as teachable without setting fire to anyone. Cook, don't cook :)

    It would be a great misunderstanding of the history of science to suppose that mainstream folks always get it right. They do not, and in some cases, it now appears amusing. But science is an incremental developing thing. We learn from the mistakes.

    It is possible that we can learn from all of them. Including climate models that fumble oceans and clouds. :)