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2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid starts at US$26,825

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my wife had an '08 and now '13. she made due, but would prefer the non hybrid trunk, all things being equal. you can find plenty of online opinions about hybrid trunk sizes, both from reviewers and comments after reviews. it's an issue, but of course, i can't quantify it.
     
  2. Stevevee

    Stevevee Active Member

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    We have the 2007 Camry Hybrid, which is the reason I bought a Prius v (lowercase v for the Prius v wagon). The only reason actually, since I would much prefer the Camry as a daily driver. To this day we have no problem achieving 36 - 39 mpg out of the Camry, at 121,000 miles.

    But lugging bowling balls, and squeezing golf clubs in the back is a chore. We're looking at a Camry non-hybrid next.
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the new hycam has a larger trunk, check it out.
     
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I agree of course that you could design a better hybrid 4 door sedan from the ground up, but I don't think that is really what is stopping people.
    yep, I think that and the fusion and sonata hybrid trunks are all good enough.

    The hurdle is brake and steering feel and price in the face of $3/gallon gasoline expectations. I'm sure if expectations were of $6/gasoline then hybrids would have a much bigger take rate then the gasoline version.

    By 2025 if doe is correct on battery prices though it shouldn't be a problem. Cafe standards will get all the cars have electronic power steering and electronic air conditioning, which will improve these systems and remove their cost from the hybrid premium. Engines like the skyactiv or the new toyota in the corolla eco would be dropped into a hybrid without any modification or added cost. 2 more generations and brake feel should be better than mechanical brakes, the problems today are mainly in the software, but 10 years is enough time for 5 generations of software.

    If battery prices drop to $200/kwh and a conditioning system is around $200, then cost of a 2.5 kwh system with conditioning will drop to $700, but provide a great deal more power and regen braking efficiency to a car, while probably fitting in a smaller area than the camry's 1.6 kwh nimh system. If you can get the rest of hsd (motors, inverters, psd) down to $1300 more than a automatic transmission, then at a 15% margin (great for midsize sedan) you can sell it at only a $2400 premium, and it will be a better driving and more efficient car than today's hybrids.

    But those dropping battery costs mean you probably design a phev/hybrid from the ground up. 10 kwh of battery only will cost $1500 more than a 2.5kwh hour. That means if you are going to start in 2015, and lose money on the first generation as these clean sheet designs often do, you want to design it as a phev, probably with electronic awd and hybrid options.

    Ford and hyundai both say they are doing clean sheet designs. I'm not sure if they are CUVs, hatchbacks, or 4 door sedans.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Because we don't get the IS hybrid.
    The vibe over at CleanMPG is generally positive for the Hyundai hybrids. When highway cruising, it self pulse and warp stealths; ICE on until the car can EV for a bit, and it returns good numbers then. The system might do as well with the variable throttle input from a car enthusiast. Like the Prius under CR's test.
    The current hybrid loses 4 cu.ft. to the non-hybrid, and it has the limited folding seats, but it still has 12 cu.ft. total. 2 cu.ft. is about the size of a typical piece of luggage, and that just reminded me of a '90s Mustang that lost 2 suitcases of trunk space to the factory, upgraded sound system.

    To note, the Camry hybrid gained 2 cu.ft. of trunk space between generations, cutting the lost space in half. An ICE Prius would gain from 2 to 3 cubic feet of cargo space.

    Lack of a spare has solutions for those in which it is a big problem. Getting more cargo space within the trunk doesn't. Roof rack or a cargo hitch mount are options, but a hitch spare tire mount is likely the best solution to getting it all in a hybrid sedan for least cost and most possession security.
    My 2 year old, 'subcompact' car has electric power steering. Some of these extra hybrid costs should disappear soon.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i saw a mercedes at auction, that had factory luggage sized to fit in the small trunk. i suppose with soft side luggage, it's not as big an issue.
     
  7. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    I agree that if a new hybrid sedan is needed it would be far better to design it from the ground up but I'm not clear why we need a new sedan at all. I think of a sedan as a significantly inferior design format. (Less space efficient, far less adaptable, and greater drag)
     
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    • sedan - keeps the trunk apart from the cabin
    • hatchback - cabin and 'trunk' share space
    • pickup - keep the open 'trunk' apart from the cabin
    Some purchasing decisions have nothing to do with efficiency:
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sedans end to be larger, thats why my wife likes the camry. you can get a corolla, but are there many hatchback options in a camry size vehicle?
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    sonata hybrid cd 0.24
    tesla model s 0.24
    camry 0.27

    versus hb
    prius liftaback 0.25
    prius c(aqua) 0.28
    crossover
    lexus nx 0.34

    I guess that SUV or CUV give most efficient interior design compared to footprint, but .... that is not efficiency.
    Those hatchbacks are called crossovers and SUVs ;-)
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    exactly. and though they sell very well, who's in the top 10, crv?
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    CR-V was 8. Camry the top car at 3, corrola at 5 neither have a hatchback. Corrola hatch aka scion im hasn't started sales in the US yet.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and just look at the venza. heavy, bloated, poor mpg's, hatchback though.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what's gm's most popular car, malibu? ford? price has something to do with it as well.
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    probably lost 'em way down inside some large hybrid trunk, that you didn't even realize existed.
    Yep - Hyundai (& maybe ford too?) was successfully (class action) sued for fudged epa #'s.
    .
     
  16. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    gm - cruze
    The malibu redesign was rushed, the cruze more popular than expected (GMs fist money making small ar in decades).
    ford - fusion in the US, focus world wide
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's nice that the focus comes in several configurations.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The mid-size sedan is the auto maker's C class car, and the compact is the B class. The Prius is classified mid-size by EPA by virtue of its cargo space. Its cabin space is equal to B class cars. The new Corolla actually has a larger cabin than the Prius.

    Sedans aren't larger because they are sedans; they are larger because the Prius is built on a smaller platform.

    There used to be wagon, and even hatchback versions of the mid-size sedans in the US. I ocassionally see a '90s Accord hatchback when out for lunch. But Americans have turned their noses up at wagons in that size class. Recently, there was the Accord Crosstour, the Venza, and a little farther back, the Taurus X/Freestyle. They tried to be more truck like than car in their styling than past wagon versions. It didn't help; they are all cancelled models.

    People in the US that want a wagon car and not a crossover in the mid-size class have to buy a German make. Europe gets a better selection of wagons and hatchbacks, but they are more apt to buy them over a crossover trim. The Us is supposed to get the Cruze hatchback with the redesign.

    I prefer hatchbacks and wagons, but the sedan version is likely the more aerodynamic one of models that offer both, and hatches are noisier with the windows down. They can get a 'booming' with the rears down.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think the majority of people just like sedans. they like having a trunk separate from the vehicle. it's quieter and safer storage.
     
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  20. Eric "v"

    Eric "v" Member

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    Hey,

    At least the Sonata hybrid has:
    1. direct injection engine
    2. STANDARD Li-ion battery
    3. A 10 year, 100,000 mile guarantee

    Now let's see Toyota match at least the 1st two of these!