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Sea level as a global thermometer

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Looking for something else, I stumbled across:
    [​IMG]
    The density of sea water changes with temperature but we have only limited, Argo sampling of the temperature depth and surface temperature metrics. Here local sea level changes provides a mass metric of sea water density. So let's compare to sea surface temperature:
    [​IMG]

    So the area north of Australia shows higher density, suggesting a colder column, that is covered by a thin layer of warmer water. We see some evidence in the waters near the islands north of Australia. Perhaps tidal flows are bringing the colder waters to the surface.

    Based upon the El Nino in the eastern Pacific raising sea level and denser water showing up in the western Pacific, I'm wondering if they are linked. In effect El Nino on one side is pushing colder, deep sea waters up on the other side.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #21 bwilson4web, Jun 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "In effect El Nino on one side is pushing colder, deep sea waters up on the other side."

    Yep, like that, but with surface winds helping with the pushing.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Another interesting data point:
    [​IMG]
    • ~7% change in solar radiance during the year
    This might explain the annual sea level change and give another metric for heat changes.

    Source: The Earth is Hottest When It Is Furthest From the Sun On Its Orbit, Not When It Is Closest

    During the period when the Earth is furthest from the sun (aphelion), the average temperature of the entire planet is about 4°F (2.3°C) higher than when it is closest to the sun (perihelion). On average, the intensity of sunlight falling on Earth during aphelion is about 7% less than during perihelion. Despite this, the Earth ends up being warmer during the period in which it is furthest away from the sun.

    So what’s going on here? During the winter months, for the Northern Hemisphere, the overall temperature of the Southern Hemisphere, where it is summer, doesn’t change as much as the other way around. This is because a much larger portion of the Southern Hemisphere, compared to the Northern Hemisphere, is made up of water and water has a significantly greater heat capacity than land. On a similar vein then, during the summer for the Southern Hemisphere, the overall average temperature of the Southern Hemisphere doesn’t increase as much as the Northern Hemisphere does during its summer, for this same reason.

    So the “tl;dr” version is: there is a lot more land in the Northern Hemisphere than the Southern Hemisphere; this land heats up much faster than water and water cools down much slower than land. So even though there is less intensity of sunlight during the summer in the Northern Hemisphere, the Earth’s average temperature is higher at this time when it’s furthest from the sun.
    . . .
    • Summers in the Northern Hemisphere last 2 to 3 days longer than summers in the Southern Hemisphere. The reason why is that the Earth moves more slowly at aphelion than at perihelion.
    • The date of the period where the Earth is furthest away from the sun is called Summer Solstice. The date at which the Earth is closest to the sun, is called Winter Solstice. Summer Solstice happens on June 21/22. Winter Solstice happens on December 21/22.
    • In between these two points, there is a point in time where the Sun will appear to rise and set along the equator, so that the length of night and day is almost exactly equal everywhere on the planet. These two points are called the vernal equinox (March 20/21) and autumnal equinox (September 22/23).

    Bob Wilson
     
    #24 bwilson4web, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2015
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Recent papers about sea erosion under Greenland and Antarctica glaciers are suggesting mechanisms that might cause some 'step' increases in sea level. So I was interested to find James Hansen and team are seeing a similar risk:

    James Hansen, the former NASA scientist whose congressional testimony put global warming on the world’s agenda a quarter-century ago, is now warning that humanity could confront “sea level rise of several meters” before the end of the century unless greenhouse gas emissions are slashed much faster than currently contemplated.

    This roughly 10 feet of sea level rise—well beyond previous estimates—would render coastal cities such as New York, London, and Shanghai uninhabitable. “Parts of [our coastal cities] would still be sticking above the water,” Hansen says, “but you couldn’t live there.”

    This apocalyptic scenario illustrates why the goal of limiting temperature rise to 2 degrees Celsius is not the safe “guardrail” most politicians and media coverage imply it is, argue Hansen and 16 colleagues in a blockbuster study they are publishing this week in the peer-reviewed journal Atmospheric Physics and Chemistry. On the contrary, a 2 C future would be “highly dangerous.”
    . . .
    Hansen has long suspected that computer models underestimated how sensitive Earth’s ice sheets were to rising temperatures. Indeed, the IPCC excluded ice sheet melt altogether from its calculations of sea level rise. For their study, Hansen and his colleagues combined ancient paleo-climate data with new satellite readings and an improved model of the climate system to demonstrate that ice sheets can melt at a “non-linear” rate: rather than an incremental melting as Earth’s poles inexorably warm, ice sheets might melt at exponential rates, shedding dangerous amounts of mass in a matter of decades, not millennia. In fact, current observations indicate that some ice sheets already are melting this rapidly.
    . . .

    Source: Climate Seer James Hansen Issues His Direst Forecast Yet - The Daily Beast

    The paper has not been published, yet, but I look forward to it.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Hanson predicted that NYC would be under water by 2015.
    Why would you listen to someone who makes ridiculous incorrect predictions?
    One who has no predictive ability, has no scientific understanding .
     
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Seriously folks, New York City and a lot of nearby New Jersey is poorly equipped to deal with storm surge. We learned that in 2013, and the cost of the lesson was more than a few $billions.

    Easy to focus on the wrong thing here. Substantially improved coastal defenses are not just a sorta good idea, NYC and several other places. After some number of more floods, even the most intransigent may agree. Or they may just say "why weren't we warned?"

    ++
    I thought a lot about prediction vs. understanding in a general sense. Sounds good at first, but the good don't last.

    Apparently Babylonian astronomers kept such excellent records that they could perfectly predict astronomical events including planetary retrograde motion. Trouble is that retrograde is (effectively) an illusion. Move from a geocentric to a heliocentric view,and the understanding kicks in.

    A lot of folks make predictions that are reasonably accurate, a reasonable fraction of the time. Understanding seems to be more on a case-by-case basis.

    In the earth system including climate, predictions tend to be rather broad, and understanding incomplete. I hope for better. Can't imagine who would not. How does one respond to the best predictions and best understanding yet available? Adaptation? Mitigation? Do nothing (different from before)?

    Make fun of peoples' names? Not quite adult enough for my tastes, even on the web.

    I can also think of examples (outside climate science) where folks had unparalleled understanding, but made so predictions that were real stinkers. Things do improve though, it's real sciency.

    I think I already mentioned how wrong was V1.0 of the Periodic Table of Elements.
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Huh? I missed that one but already agree. My version would be circular:
    [​IMG]
    Then there is the oral version:


    Bob Wilson
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Please read the abstract (for free) and decide if you would make the effort to obtain a copy. Storm surges and heavy rain events have jointly increased in many coastal cities, based on starting dates from 1900 to 1930s. This was analyzed excluding effects of sea-level rise.

    Added effects of 20, 100 (or whatever you prefer) SLR will only exacerbate the problem. Debate the magnitude of this additional effect all you like. The point is that that coastal defenses are needed now.

    Thomas Wahl et al 2015. Increasing risk of compound flooding from storm surge and rainfall for major US cities. Nature Climate Change DOI: 10.1038/NCLIMATE2736
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    This recent publication uses historical tide gauge records and older paleo proxies for sea level

    Robert E. Kopp et al. 2016 Temperature-driven global sea-level variability in the Common Era. PNAS E1434–E144 doi: 10.1073/pnas.1517056113

    Kopp et al 2016 Fig 1D.png

    Together with recent paleo T work, I would suggest that a rather consonant picture emerges over this time scale. Neither "much of that past was warmer" nor "we are quickly moving into death by heat or drowning".