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NWH11 - P3191, P3105, P3001, P3030 and exploded cell!

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Bushkin, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. Bushkin

    Bushkin New Member

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    I have had this vehicle for a couple of years (2001 Gen1 Prius) and it has been fine and has had a replacement traction battery at some point in the recent past (haven't got documents to hand, but saw them when I bought the car). If left unused for a long period (3-4 weeks+) then the auxiliary (12v) battery would usually run flat and require charging before the car could be used. Often after re-fitting the charged battery, I would encounter warning signs (big red triangle on instrument cluster, car with warning triangle on LCD screen). These would not prevent the car from being started and driven and they would disappear after a few start-up cycles, so I put it down to confusion of the ECU after the flat battery?

    After one flat battery incident, my brother offered to charge the battery while I was away. (I suspect he may have charged the battery whilst it was still connected to the vehicle). Upon my return the car started as normal, with usual warning messages, which I thought would soon subside. However they have not subsided and I have driven a significant distance (~2000 miles). Up until recently, there had been no untoward symptoms, with everything operating as normal, despite the warnings, however the following symptoms are now noticeable: HV Battery cooling fan constantly running, ICE idle erratic, ICE cycling On/Off frequently. Most recently I heard a loud bang from the rear of the vehicle and upon removal of the HV Battery fan cowling to reveal the top of the NS bank of cells I can see fragments of a cell cap. I assume a cell or two has exploded. It is still possible to start the ICE, but doing so results in white smoke being emitting from the battery enclosure. I appreciate I am an idiot for driving the vehicle in this state, but I just want help to diagnose the possible causes and find a way forward and repair the vehicle.

    After scanning the vehicle ECUs via the OBD port, using Techstream I got the following codes:

    ICE ECU:
    P3191 - Engine will not start

    Hybrid ECU:
    P3105 - HV battery ecu/communication circuit fault

    HV Battery ECU:
    P3001 - HV battery ECU fault
    P3030 - High voltage line snapped

    I will attach screenshots of the freeze frame and live data from these ECUs in Techstream.

    There are no voltage readings for any of the banks of cells in the HV battery, but there are fairly consistent internal resistance readings, along with various other data (including SOC=50/60%) which you may find useful in diagnosis. Also attached are photos of the battery pack showing failed cell(s).

    Thank you for taking the time to read this and thanks in advance for any assistance. I have followed a few threads on this forum before and have noticed there are some very intelligent, analytical and helpful contributors!

    James

    1.PNG 2.PNG 3.PNG 4.PNG 5.PNG 6.PNG 7.PNG 8.PNG 20150802_173342.jpg 20150802_173357.jpg 20150802_173452.jpg
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    this is so weird, because this just happened to someone else.
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well, yes.

    1. Fully-charge the 12V battery, or replace the battery if it is dead.
    2. Replace the traction battery now as it definitely has become a safety hazard and may catch on fire if you persist in trying to log more miles on the existing battery.
    3. The traction battery ECU may have failed as well.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    This is probably as good a time as ever for a couple Public Service Announcements:

    1. It never makes any sense to say "the usual warnings" just because of seeing the same "usual" lights on the dash. The dash lights aren't the warnings, they are just the lights that tell you warning codes exist and need to be read. There are hundreds of these, if you don't read them when the dash lights come on, there is no saying they are "usual" warnings or the same as anything that may have come up before. Falling into that trap just makes you likely to ignore important new developing problems.

    2. There is no such thing as "operating as normal, despite the warnings". The warnings are the car telling you something isn't operating as normal. When it tells you that, it's time to read the codes.

    I'm not trying to pick on you, but hoping some reader from the future might see this before ending up in a similar fix.

    -Chap
     
  5. greasemonkey007

    greasemonkey007 Active Member

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    I would be surprised if your volt sensing harness that runs along one side of the HV battery pack is not at least partially burnt as well. It's around $200 from dealer. You may get lucky and find one on ebay. Definitely DO NOT keep driving the car. Here are some pics of one that could have burnt the whole car.
    Also, if you are mechanically inclined, you can rebuild the pack with 2nd or 3rd generation battery modules. They are much better than the 1st generation modules. You can also buy a reman pack from Dorman with a 3 year warranty. They use 2nd gen modules in their rebuilds.
    Best of luck.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    With the exploded module, it should not start.

    WARNING: the potassium hydroxide electrolyte dissolves organic material like fingers, eyes, and clothing. Wear old clothes, gloves, and safety goggles. Then it attacks metals, particularly copper.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Aug 3, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  7. Bushkin

    Bushkin New Member

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    Hi again, thank you all for you helpful responses!

    @bisco : Really? How unlucky! Were did you hear about it?

    @Patrick Wong : Definiately, although will investigate rebuilding the existing battery if possible and would like to determine serviceability of HV battery ECU.

    @champmanf : Yes, wise words. I had become accustomed to the pattern of this fault appearing briefly then disappearing.

    @bwilson4web : The ICE starts with the battery in the condition described/pictured, but does emit fumes under this load so obviously won't be doing that again! Does the battery contain Lithium? I thought the electrolyte would be sodium or potassium based in NiMH cells? And yes, I will be wearing ALL the gear when I inspect the unit further!

    Special thanks to the pragmatic @greasemonkey007 : I would guess that the harness may have sustained some damage as the explosion was fairly violent inside that little metal box! Although, I have no voltage readings from the cell banks, I still get internal resistance reading (see screenshots)? Is there a separate harness for measuring the internal resistance or does the ECU use the same wiring to gather both sets of information?

    Also you mention using later generation battery modules to rebuild my battery. Are they fully compatible in size and specification with the existing battery and what would be the implications of mixing the different modules if the specs were different?

    How can I determine if the Battery ECU is faulty, as I appear to be able to communicate with it via the OBD port and read freeze frame or live data?

    Thanks again everyone!

    James
     
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sorry, you were right, potassium hydroxide.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. Bushkin

    Bushkin New Member

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    Well either way, I reckon they're both pretty nasty substances! :sick:
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    About the modules, they'll fit in the same case but there are slight differences in dimensions and larger differences in internal resistance. Not to mention the problem of matching capacity. A 'low capacity' module will have a greater voltage swing on charge/discharge than a 'high capacity' module and this all depends upon their wear. I've measured values of ~2.1 to 5.5 Ahr of used modules.

    I'm a fan of going with a volume, rebuilder because they have the inventory to match modules correctly, balance the charge, and reassemble with the right torque and parts. Individuals have succeeded on their own and some for many years (surprised me!) But it just happens to be a function of doing the job right and luck of the draw.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I know I'm repeating myself, I just want the thread to have it down clearly: unless you check the codes each time, there is no "pattern of this fault appearing"; just a pattern or non-pattern of some fault, or faults, appearing at different times, that happen to light the same dash lights—which is bound to happen, when the car checks hundreds of faults and has just a handful of dash lights to signal them all.

    As for the internal resistances, there are no additional wires for that, but they are computed values, as opposed to the voltages which are directly measured. To get resistances, the computer needs to watch what the volt-sense wires do while battery current is flowing, and apply Ohm's law. It probably remembers the last values it computed.

    -Chap
     
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  12. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Exploded modules are almost common. I have seen cars run on topless modules. The explosion is just built up gas pressure cracking the plastic case open. The electrical connections are not affected. None of this means the car should be operated in this state, And if you see smoke coming out of the battery just run away. Really, do not breath that crap!

    The poor 12 volt battery probably contributed to the demise of the traction battery by making the dc to dc converter work overtime. So the OP's car needs a new 12 volt and HV battery. Good used Gen I battery modules are becoming a thing of the past. That leaves a rebuild with Gen II modules or a new battery from Toyota as the remaining options. The real question is this Gen I Prius worth that level of investment. For many Gen I Prius the answer is no.

    Brad
     
  13. greasemonkey007

    greasemonkey007 Active Member

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    As for the compatibility of the modules, the 1st gen will not mix and match with the later ones. However, you can replace all 38 1st gen modules with the newer ones. I have used 2nd gen modules, and I believe you can use the 3rd gen modules as well. They are slightly longer, but they bolt right up to the tray. It will make the battery cover fit just a little tighter, but it's not bad at all.