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Featured Volt gen II - 106 mpge aer 53 miles, 42 mpg.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by austingreen, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Yes. It has a wider range of valve timing that it can adjust dynamically under computer control to achieve an "Atkinson" style cycle

    The only thing it's really missing is an exhaust heat recirculating feature to help the engine heat up faster from cold starts or when operating intermittently and to help heat the cabin on cold days. The 2016 Malibu hybrid has that on its slightly bigger and different architecture new gas engine that gets 47 mpg combined but that engine probably costs more. The Prius has also done that for many years.

    GM probably figured it wasn't worth the added cost as a rarely used range extender.
     
    #21 Jeff N, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    For details since people seem interested, some efficiency specs are off as they were the pre-final epa test, which are higher than those mentioned
    GM unveils more efficient 2016 Volt powertrain - SAE International
    Note I don't think that adding ehr would have added much to the cost since as you said they are doing it in the 2016 malibu hybrid. Perhaps the engineers didn't have time or care but it could come in a refresh if it helps efficiency. I believe the 2016 malibu hybrid simply has the larger 1.8L engine from the same family as the volt, but it has a different chemistry 1.5 kwh lithium battery.
     
  3. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    There is very little detailed public information about the design of the Malibu's 1.8L hybrid engine. It does not appear to be part of the same design family as the 1.5L engine in the Volt which is a new joint design between GM and its Chinese auto partner (SAIC). All we appear to know is that the Malibu engine is "all new".

    The Malibu hybrid battery pack is completely different from the Volt pack other than being Lithium-ion based. It's made by Hitachi instead of LG Chem and is tuned and constructed to have a high power vs. energy ratio.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's part of a new engine family just starting to come to market. The 1.5L 'core' will be used in the new Cruze and new Impala. It might already be in use in some overseas models.
    Agree on the TCO v. hybrid premium, but many still see just the initial price, and only consider prices of fuel during the present.
    Considering the popularity of the Cruze and other "compact" cars, I think people are realizing how much bloat has been added on to cars through the years, and the Camry of 20 years ago might have been big enough. Those with needs to haul people or stuff mostly go minivan or crossover instead of larger sedan.

    I suspect GM is saving a sport mode for the upcoming Cadillac PHV.
     
    #24 Trollbait, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
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  5. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    I was expecting the gen2 ice to be 50 mpg - I guess not. If people climed to buy the Volt for the EV, they be better off with a BEV like the Leaf.

    DBCassidy
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Why is that? The ice mpg complaints were mainly from people that didn't like obama, you know polticial. This is a better engine.

    Most days leaf owners only drive 29 miles, and it seems the average gen I volt owner drove about the same yearly electric mileage as leaf owners. That leaf guy though goes into another car to go further than 60 miles (range anxiety often keeps it that low), with the gen II volt you will get almost all those leaf trips in, but the first 53 (epa) of the long trips as well. I think that is why Nissan is stepping up its game on a longer range leaf also do out this year. The 106 mpge is not far off of the leaf's 114 mpge.

    Both are fine cars. Some may choose the leaf, or c-max energi or fusion energi for the back seat or cargo room.The leaf is also lower priced.
     
  7. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Short term thinking like this is why there are so few investors as good as Warren Buffet.

    The average age of cars on the road is 11-12 years. Mathematically, this means that there are many many cars 15-20 years old on the road (such as my original 2001 Prius still being driven by the person I sold it to). Hybrids cars cost more because they are worth more even when they are older (on average).
    If you buy something of premium quality, use it for half its life and then sell it, you didn't "use up" its premium...it still has additional value beyond a basic item. Else a 10 year old Impala would sell for the same price as a 10 year old Corvette.

    In addition, I dispute the basis for your claim that there is a $5000 premium for the Prius to start with. All the comparisons to cars costing $5000 less are missing one or more of: features, seating, leg room, head room, etc.

    Mike
     
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  8. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    Very few people Hypermile - and no car needs to be hypermiled.
    I agreed with you with respect to hypermiling over long distances - I tried to do it - but its way too hard for one driver for anything over 3 hours.
    Hypermiling experts get around this by driving in pairs and switching drivers every two or so hours or keeping the trip under 3 hours.

    The Volt simply needs to be recharged over night - but to keep the MPG up you need to limit the distance traveled between recharges because the ICE mpg isn't going to be more than 45 mpg even with hypermiling techniques. Personally - I don't have a way to recharge an EV overnight so a Plug in and EVs are a no starter for me... even if I did have a way to recharge - I did not qualify for the government incentives or tax credits back then or now. My cousin -however- did qualified for the clunker for cash thingy but he got a Ford Fusion Hybrid because he's a loyal to Ford.

    When the local dealership had a exhibit for the Volt when it first came out I did test drive it - and I agree the Volt feels and drives more like a regular car than a Prius. At that time I was able to talk to the GM engineers and owners of the Volt.

    Don't get me wrong - I don't hate the Volt or the Prius or the Leaf or any other alternative energy vehicle.
    However, I am interested in what makes a vehicle *fit* into the market place

    Despite all the Prius bashing - the Prius is the most popular hybrid in the USA - and in the DC area.
    From what I've seen most Prii in the DC area are driven normally - jack rabbit accelerations and racing toward a red light.
    While there are a few more Volts on the road now - they are still rare in the Washington DC Metro Area.
    When I see them - Volt drivers appear to be over 50 years old and tend to drive less aggressive than most other drivers.
    The age range of Prii drivers is much wider - Prius drivers can be very young.
    Even if you group all the alternative energy vehicles in t he DC area as one kind of vehicle,
    they would still be a minority when compared to the number of SUVs on the road here.

    An SUV big advantage here is driving over bad road surfaces and driving over snow. when we have it.
     
    #28 walter Lee, Aug 4, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  9. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    Back in 2008-2010 before I bought my Prius - I did a break even analysis based on the fuel saving projections vs additional capital cost to buy an alternative energy vehicle - that was used by skeptics and critics of the alternative energy vehicles. Back then critics of the Prius also argued that the HV battery or hybrid component could or would go bad and this would be eliminate any financial advantage. While my spread sheet could analyze variations due to the average price of gas - it was not able to determine the impact or risk of HV battery failure - at the time my state was not a CARB state and because I usually drive my vehicles over 10 years - the Prius' HV battery lifespan was of great interest - which led me to Priuschat and the Prius yahoo group because I wanted to hear from Prius owner about their experiences with the Prius' reliablity and how well was the battery packs holding out.
     
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  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Ok agree there

    weird government language. If you lease the car you get the incentives. I know right? So you qualify.

    Most people don't drive more than 40 miles on a typical day. If you are driving a lot more than 90 (uses less than a gallon epa in the gen II) then the volt is probably not for you.

    But plug-ins are only appropriate for 42% of drivers, so if you don't have a place to plug- in its not for you.
     
  11. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Unfortunately, the Leaf isn't able to make a 127 mile run when necessary, at the drop of a hat.
    AH.jpg
     
  12. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    So much of the Prius vs. Volt discussions center on the technical aspects of the vehicles. Yet I wonder how much of the buying decision is based on Toyota vs. GM reputation. Those are quite different.
     
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  13. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Actually, I've gotten 48-52 mpg gas-only in my 2011 Volt on long trips driving at 55-57 mph using cruise control but it's a bit tedious without some good podcasts and old-time radio shows to listen to.

    I averaged 45-46 mpg gas-only during a several thousand mile road trip last fall from California out to Ohio and back. That included some multi-hour stretches at 70 mph when I was running late to meetups with friends and relatives along the way.
     
    #33 Jeff N, Aug 5, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  14. Brianb913

    Brianb913 Member

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    I like both companies. Toyota was leading the way with hybrids, but I've fallen out with them specifically because they are backing hydrogen as the future. Their cars are also fairly lifeless to drive, they get you from A to B but have no joy or soul in them (or at least the ones I've driven don't).

    As for GM they have re-gained a lot of my respect in recent years, the new post bankruptcy leadership is making all the right moves, their newer cars are well built, and they are finally leveraging their engineering talent properly.

    Volt is fun to drive, significantly more fun than my Prius and the Gen 2 Volt is supposed to be better both performance and handling wise. Given the choice now, I am going with the Volt over the upcoming Gen 4 Prius. I would obviously have to test drive both first but GM has my favor at the moment while Toyota is stalling out.

    Quite a difference from 6 years ago where GM didn't even show up on my radar when I was looking for a new car, which led to my current Prius purchase.
     
    #34 Brianb913, Aug 5, 2015
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  15. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Bought both Toyota and GM products over the years - gave up on GM - way too many reliability issues. Took a chance on Toyota - never looked back. Yes, I had recalls done with Toyota, but the reliability and dependability and resale value is all there.

    DBCassidy
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    which are those - CARB only?
    .
     
  17. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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  18. Brianb913

    Brianb913 Member

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    Fotomoto answered but basically yes, California gets it a couple months before the other carb states, other carb states get theirs a few weeks before nation wide roll out.

     
  19. Silver bullit

    Silver bullit Right Lane Cruiser

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    Cancelled
     
    #39 Silver bullit, Aug 21, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
  20. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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