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Post bearing axle repair roaring....

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Tim Teague, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    I began to hear strong roaring from the front driver side of my 07 Prius. I assumed it was the bearing so I replaced it. When I replaced it, I found the opening that the bearing assembly, as well as the old bearing assembly had rust and what looked like calcium built up. I replaced the old bearing assembly, but cleaned the inside of the old housing prior to bolting the assembly to the housing. All torqued to spec, and replaced. The noise was somewhat lessened, but could still hear a more faint roar, and then could hear the turns of the axle as I turned a particular direction. I removed the assembly again, drained the transmission, replaced the axle, re-filled transmission and re-installed. A little better, but not much. Is it possible that the assembly that holds the bearing is worn enough that it is impossible for the bearing to seat properly, despite the recommended torque and is "magnifying" the sound of all the moving parts around it?

    I am at the end of my chase and just wondered if anyone had a similar issue.

    Thanks!

    Tim in nashville
     
  2. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    I have always needed a press to get the old bearings out. Even after cleaning all the junk and rust out the new bearing should be a snug fit. You should need to tap or pull the new bearing in with the mounting bolts.

    How did the old bearing feel? Any play or roughness?

    Brad
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    could the seating area be worn and need of replacement? i guess i'm asking the same question, but it sure sounds like it.
     
  4. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    I am thinking of pulling it off again and seeing if I need to try to press it in further. I torqued the bolts very tight, I'm sure over 80 ft lbs assuming that would seat it properly. I did not press it when I re-assembled it, just pushed it in, then bolted it. The other option would be to buy the entire housing that the bearing assembly fits into but it looks like it's a dealer only part. I am wondering if I take it back off, then leave the bolts in, and attempt to press further, if the bolts then show any space between then head and the surface, then it was not properly seated in the first place. Just thinking of all possibilities before taking it off again.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i had no idea there were dealer only parts, sounds expensive. how about a low mile salvage, if push comes to shove?
     
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  6. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    I have no idea where to find a salvage Prius that can be picked. I use pull a part and pick a part for my other hobby cars, but the cut-off for these yards seems to be about 10 years old or older. I spent a lot of time in Detroit in the winter with this car which is probably why the corrosion is so bad inside the hub.
     
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  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    From your description it is not quite clear what you have done. Did you replace with a new the bearing assembly with the wheel flange or did you just clean out the bearing and re assemble with fresh grease? The wheel bearings on the Gen2 Prius cannot be replaced without replacing the complete hub.

    John
     
  8. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    I replaced the entire assembly as pictured below. It is the housing that this assembly fits into that I had to wire brush. It is the assembly that also attaches to the lower control arm, the steering arm, and the strut mount. the opening that the bearing assembly goes into was very corroded, and their is a circular "notch" inside the diameter. I can't find that housing online, but am hoping if I remove the entire hub, and attempt to press it further in, I will discover that since I didn't press it in originally, and solely hoped the torqueing of the bolts would snug it sufficiently, that I should have pressed it in the first place. Any experience would be appreciated.
     
  9. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    upload_2015-9-2_9-40-37.png what was replaced new
     
  10. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    If the bearing hub is not fully home in the carrier it will not cause a moaning or roaring noise. If loose it can cause a knocking over bumps, and it will affect camber and toe angles if not fully home.
    It is possible to get noise if the axle nut is not tightened up to the correct torque.
    The other possibility is the tyre on the repaired side or bearing on the other side of the car has also failed.

    John
     
  11. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    So the roaring I hear will NOT come from a fully seated bearing housing, but could come from the axle nut not being fully torqued. I will check again as it is around 150 ft. lbs. I always worry when that side of the car is in the air and the only thing holding the axle still is the transmission. Always afraid I will break a gear internally. I guess I can check the torque again with the car on the ground. I also swapped the rear tire out with the front. There is no doubt this noise is coming from the driver side. As a final note, is there any problem torquing the axle nut while the car is on the ground?
     
  12. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    There is no problem with final torquing of the axle nut on the ground. If the nut is not tightened enough it can allow bearing play under load conditions. It is tightening the nut to the torque figure that pretensions the bearings.
    It is not unknown for some of the cheap import bearings to be bad from day one.
    The bearing hub gets tight in the carrier because of the different metals used. This along with salt and water produces an electrolytic reaction corroding the aluminium carrier seizing the bearing hub in place.
    I hope this helps you.

    John
     
  13. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    yes it does. What I saw was definitely the result of salt corrosion. I am very doubtful that the bearing is not seated correctly, but feel the torque on the axle could definitely be the culprit. I will keep you posted. BTW-does anyone know the exact torque for the axle bearing...I was thinking 154 or something.
     
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  14. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    159 ft/lbs.

    John
     
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  15. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    perfect! Thanks.
     
  16. Tim Teague

    Tim Teague New Member

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    Well, I haven't posted in a while because of frustration of the continuing issue...I mean...how hard can it be to properly replace a bearing??? Everything is torqued properly but here is the result- basic growling noise is not gone. however, there is a decided rhythmic "womp" as I drive. It is the sound that tyipically would come from the axle, but the noise seems to be centered around the bearing. I am still trying to diagnose as this is my second new bearing, and the axle is new as well. I am guessing the following- 1) First mistake was assuming that snugging the bolts was sufficient to seat the bearing. 2) not having enough torque on the axle end nut allowed a slight bit of play between the axle and bearing, hence quickly wearing the bearing so when I tightened the end nut to the correct torque the damage was already done. So, the two user errors I am guessing are not pressing the bearing prior to snugging bolts, and not adequately torqueing the axle end nut. If anyone sees any flaws in this logic I would really appreciate the input before I start all over! Thanks
     
  17. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    A long shot I know but have you tried changing wheels from the back to the front. At one time I had a noise that I was sure was a wheel bearing, but I was due for new tyres. Once the new tyres were fitted the noise was gone.

    John
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The same gear you're worried about breaking can happily deliver about 350 ft.lb. (system output) ✕ 4.113 (final drive ratio) ÷ 2 (two wheels) ≈ 720 ft.lb. to that same wheel, when you scoot ahead of that dude in the next lane at the stop light. :)

    I guess the weakest link could be the parking pawl, which is really what's holding things still when you've got one wheel in the air.

    Come to think of it, last time I loosened/tightened an axle nut, I had this telescoping snow brush in the car that I just extended to a good length and jammed between the brake pedal and steering wheel (after putting disc and caliper back on of course). No problem tightening nut that way!

    -Chap
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    KNUCKLE, STEERING, LH.

    -Chap
     
  20. SaganGathering

    SaganGathering Junior Member

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    What does it mean "pressing the bearing"? I have heard wildly differing accounts of how to replace a Gen2 Bearing/hub. Some say not to undo the "knuckle" (whatever that actually is-online images vary). Some accounts mention a "press" while other specifically say you don't need a press. What gives?

    Also what's the *official*, VERIFIED, Toyota Torque specs for this repair? The variety of claimed values online disturbs me.