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Smoke from dash, brakes compromised.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by bocomomark, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. bocomomark

    bocomomark New Member

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    I have a 2004 prius with about 350k miles on it, bought it about a year ago and we have had our first trouble with it (it's been great so far, and when you consider it's mileage, pretty impressive).

    We were driving along and a constant alarm started (beeeeep!!!) and lights on the dash lit up. I assumed it was cranky because the rear hatch wasn't closed or something and kept driving (we didn't have far to go). It wasn't long before smoke with a distinctive burnt electronics smell started coming up from the dash at the front left lower corner of the windshield. Then the brakes started to feel very unresponsive and sluggish (no regenerative braking either). She still runs and drives. So here is where I am now:
    • The car screams constantly and the brake light, ABS light and the (!) light are all lit.
    • I've been poking about and figured out that my inverter coolant pump isn't working properly. At this point I am wondering if this is just pure coincidence though (i.e. perhaps its not been working for awhile). I will be replacing this soon.
    • I checked the error codes and they all seemed to be un-related and or old (catalytic converter not working properly, ran out of fuel, etc). I cleared them and no new ones are populating. (car has only been driven around the block 3 times though)
    • The 12 V battery seems to be working fine, and it's getting the proper charging voltage. (voltage tested through the console under various conditions)
    • I have reset the braking system (bridging the #4 and #13 pins thing) and this turned the buzzer and lights off for about 20 seconds. Still no proper brakes. And of course the noise and lights just come back. Still no error codes via my Bluetooth reader and smartphone.
    I have my doubts that replacing the inverter pump will fix this brake issue. Ideas anyone? I am familiar with working on cars, but this is my first foray with 1) a modern car and 2) a Prius. (Previous cars are all mid 90s or older, so I'm a little bit overwhelmed here...)

    My past experiences with dealerships have been less than positive, so I'm trying to avoid that route if possible. Also, I have spent some time trying to run searches and figure this out, so my apologies if this is a common thing and my search skills are just lacking...
     
  2. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    What did you check the codes with? If any fault light came on then there has to be codes. Probably your reader can not read brake related codes. Mini-VCI is best reader and its cheap.
     
  3. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    Sorry to hear of your problems, but I'm not sure I understand why you ignored all the warning lights and continued driving it. Smoke is a bad sign, and I think I'd have stopped long before then! Good luck with getting it sorted out! I hope it doesn't put you off Prii. Sorry I don't have anything more constructive to say which might help you, but you've certainly come to the right place!
     
  4. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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    check the wires going to the wheel sensors then have the brake booster checked
    smoke from anywhere is bad, the fuse box would be my guess, maybe a fusible link for the booster (if there is one) burned up.


    at that age and mileage you might be better off selling it as parts for $1500.. it really isn't worth dumping money into, a used booster is over $1000 installed, new one is triple that, what ever the issue is it sounds very expensive
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I'm going to have to second Wil's comment here. Look, I don't mean to scold, and I know in your case it's coming after you needed it, but other people read these forums and I'd hate to see this story repeat. So, as a kind of public service announcement:

    Dudes. You're driving an $n,000 m-thousand-pound car down the road. Not just an $n,000 car, but one that's been carefully built with computers on purpose to monitor for any problems and tell you exactly what they are.
    [​IMG]

    Then as you're driving down the road, the computer not only turns on dash warning lights for the brakes but also sounds the alarm, which it does not activate for minor brake issues, and folks, that is your friendly computer suggesting that you stop. driving. the. car. because the brakes are going to get hard to use and it won't be easy to stop. And then it's not like you're blindly wondering what sort of thing might be wrong with your car. You ask the computer what it sounded the alarm about. If you don't have the tool to do that, you can have it done by people who do. (In the case of the brake computer, up through Gen 3 at least, you can use a piece of wire and count light blinks.)

    So again, I'm sorry in your case this is talking about the barn door after the horse is gone, but maybe the next person won't take the same chances.

    In your case, I'm guessing it was unable to reach the necessary boost pressure and was running, or trying to run, the boost pump continuously, and the continuous current draw was enough to let some of the magic smoke out. But, I wasn't right there when it was happening, and your brake computer was, so you'll probably get better information by asking it.

    -Chap
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Woops, I can't stop there, I responded so quickly I didn't even see how much better it gets.

    If you searched around long enough to find how to force a reset using terminals #4 and #13, you had to have been within inches of the information on how to read the problem codes on the blinking dash lights using the same pins! And instead of asking the computer what problem with your brakes it is trying to tell you about, you tell it to forget the problem and shut up?

    Shoot, I never mean to sound cruel and I rarely get this worked up about posts on PriusChat. Look. There are other people in the world counting on you to act like a sane person where the brakes on your car are concerned.

    As others have pointed out, many generic code readers are only built to read generic emissions codes from standard OBD-II cars, and not to see all of the specialized information the Prius computers can be trying to tell you. There are readers that can get that information for you, they are often discussed on this forum. Using a reader that doesn't see the codes you need and saying "hmm, there are no codes" isn't an effective way forward.

    -Chap
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    OP, you had my complete attention at "smoke is coming from the dash". Something has shorted, ie: the 12 volt circuit's electrons have found a shortcut to ground, ie: the car body. And evidentially the component they passed through on the way was essential for brake operation.
     
  8. bocomomark

    bocomomark New Member

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    Ahh, thank you for pointing this out. It did not occur to me that my reader would be incapable of accessing an entire suite of codes (I did assume that of course the dealer computer was best...). We have ordered a Mini-VCI and it's on the way.
     
  9. bocomomark

    bocomomark New Member

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    No problems, My wife loves the Prius, and this one will either be fixed or we will get another. Sorry for the confusion, regarding me driving it. How about we say that I pulled over at the first opportunity checked the car out, and then limped home (not far away), and it's been parked in the drive since? (Cause that is the case, it's just that the parking area was about 1/2 mile off when the alarms had gone off).
     
  10. bocomomark

    bocomomark New Member

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    Chap, my apologies. I did spend some time searching on how to read the codes, and could only find Gen 1 material, so I made the assumption that perhaps this feature was not available in Gen 2 cars. I was not aware that what I did was actually clearing the codes, and that was not my intent (granted it makes a world of sense in retrospect). I think it should be obvious at this point that I'm bungling this, but feel free to rip into me more, since you seem to enjoy it so much.
     
  11. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    The failed inverter coolant pump is another problem. When the inverter gets too hot it will just shut down. At best, you may have enough momentum to pull onto the shoulder of the road.

    There are different levels of brake failure. It sounds like you hit the jackpot.

    Let's step back and take a look at the entire picture. I don't believe the Prius has quite entered the collectible car market and any used Gen2 is going to sell for $10000 at most. How much would you pay for a running 2004 with 350000 miles? I think it is admirable that you want to restore this car but with most (if not all) restorations you'll never get your money back.

    Every car dies. It took yours 11 years and 350000 miles. How much more do you want? Scrap the car and put the money toward a newer Prius.
     
  12. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Well, you have an 11 model year old Prius with 350K on it. That gave you a warning light. Then smoke and disaster.

    I don't know.

    I'm going to default to the advice I give anyone and everyone looking to try to fix their own brakes. Which is basically don't do it. Your brakes aren't working right. You've got codes, warning lights and buzzers, along with smoke and a burnt electronic smell.

    I don't know how a vehicle is suppose to communicate that it's time for a dealership trip more forcefully?

    Sure, you could replace this, replace that...but again since whatever has happened seems to be affecting your brakes?

    The quickest and potentially the safest way to resolution and definition of problem is probably going to take a thorough investigation including a code reader.
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I really don't, that's the worst part. I'm mostly hoping the thread might be seen and remembered by someone else who will then know that when the computer puts on the brake warning light and the alarm sound, that isn't a keep-driving-and-think-about-it-later situation, and maybe that will prevent someone eventually getting hurt. And you aren't the first person I've seen on this forum go straight to resetting codes when a lot could be learned from reading them, and maybe someone seeing this thread will think twice about that too. In the process I've sort of made an example of your misfortune, and I feel bad about that.

    If it helps any, you're not even the first person I've heard of treating the brake lights and alarm as something for later. The first one I stumbled on is actually in the NHTSA complaint database somewhere: somebody actually submitted a Prius safety defect complaint because after continuing to drive down the highway for some minutes with the brake warning lights and alarm on, it turned out the brakes didn't work well.

    So I guess you were unlucky enough to have the second such story I heard. You hear one such story and think "well, there'll always be one...", but you hear two such stories and think ... whoa ... maybe a little rant about this could actually help somebody down the road ....

    At least, that's really the overarching intent ....

    -Chap
     
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  14. bocomomark

    bocomomark New Member

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    JimN, I certainly agree with your logic, I'm just looking to confirm that I have indeed "hit the jackpot."
     
  15. Beachbummm

    Beachbummm Senior Member

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    you might want to install that software on an old laptop, when I got mine off amazon AVG found it was full of viruses so I put it on an old XP laptop we don't use anymore
     
  16. epoch_time

    epoch_time Active Member

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    Hi bocomomark..
    You say that your suspect problems with your inverter coolant pump. (me to ).
    When the inverter overheats. Regenerative braking is disabled . This condition is one of many that will illuminate abs warning lights...
    Over heated high voltage battery from clogged cooling fan will also disable regen-braking and trigger abs warning lights..

    If the high voltage cooling fan freezes up and stops spining for any reason . regen-braking will be disabled and abs warning lights up.
    The hv cooling fan/motor is speed controlled and rpm monitored by hv battery ecu...however the inverter coolant pump/motor is not monitored..

    When hv battery over heats there is a burning smell...

    I have no clue at all when you say smoke came out left corner of dashboard....
    I hope that smoke wasn't from inverter comming through drivers window?
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Let's not distract or misdirect an owner with a serious issue. The brake alarm was sounding. In the diagnostics volume of the service manual on techinfo.toyota.com there will be a table showing which of the possible braking trouble codes are also programmed to sound the audible buzzer. The battery cooling fan won't be one of them.

    -Chap