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Toyota Comments on Cost Reduction of 4th-gen Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by usbseawolf2000, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't see any corners cut on the gen IV so far.
     
  2. luckyboy

    luckyboy Member

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    as far as I know, its only sold as a set (minus battery of course)
     
  3. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    Nor a starter, nor an alternator.
     
  4. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    I don't think that the replacement part price of the Prius transaxle tells us much at all about what it costs to make. As it's unique, it's not like an standard automatic transmission where if you charge double what your competition do, you are going to have a big problem with your customers. I think that in this case, the amount of material and the number of separate pieces that have to be machined and assembled are a much more reliable guide. Post 37 portrays this pretty clearly.
     
  5. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Prius is saving on moving (mechanical) parts. The engine is simple NA with port injection (does Gen4 have DI?) and transmission is simple PSD. No clutch, no transmission, no sophisticated turbo engine, no complex gas after treatment, no belt driven accessories ...

    But of course what it saves it then takes back with the hybrid components, but I think the main reason for success of HSD is the very fact that it saves a lot of conventional car stuff and in the end the price premium is not that big. There is actually no price premium if you are comparing it to a double clutch AT with a nice torquey turbo engine, let alone a diesel engine.

    One of the main fails other car manufactures are doing is that they are keeping all their conventional components and on top of that they are trying to do a hybrid - this is complete no-go. One of the examples is a diesel hybrid from PSA that is said to be discontinued. There is some kicking from the PHEV department (Golf GTE, A3 e-tron) but I have my doubts about this kind of solutions.

    I also doubt that 48V mild hybrid will ever be a hit, it just gets so complicated that there is no much sense in going that route.
     
    #45 GasperG, Oct 6, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  6. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Also the PSA Hybrid-air project is stuck between partnerships and cost issues. IMPOV it will not be produced.

    Going mainstream with new tech ocurred only once, with Prius!
     
  7. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    48v mild hybrids make sense when combined with MT and light platform, something like Mitsubishi Mirage, gen1 Insight or even Spark/Versa platforms. Cheap, light, simple and good enough for regen recovery. In bigger cars it just doesn't make sense.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you can't make anything cheaper than a ford explorer.
     
  9. UsedToLoveCars

    UsedToLoveCars Active Member

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    in a different field, whenever a unified architecture is attempted to be created to be used with wildly differing products, it has always ended with 1) mediocre products 2) increased cost and complexity 3) and in a few cases outright failure of the project.

    can't imagine automotive engineering is too much different. "Hey, let's create a single chassis used by SUVs, mini vans, sports cars ..." = mediocre products all around in the pursuit of some cost savings.
     
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    That's a full misunderstanding of what "TNGA" is.
     
  11. UsedToLoveCars

    UsedToLoveCars Active Member

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    This article pretty much says otherwise. But hey, I'm sure some random dude on the internet knows more than an in-depth car mag artcile.

    How the Toyota New Global Architecture Will Impact Mass-Car Building


    BTW, MQB unified architecture has been extremely painful for VAG. The B9 audi a4 got delayed over a year and several execs lost their jobs once it became clear what a clusterf--- it was.
     
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    That article says nothing of the sort. Did you read it?

    It's not "a single chassis used by SUVs, mini vans, sports cars" at all. It's families of parts and drive-line components, as well as manufacturing lines, to be used by many different cars and car families.

    I think you should try these articles:

    Toyota's massive engine overhaul
    TNGA: Toyota’s New Global Platform Revealed, New Engines Coming
     
  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well in one corner, there's the Cirrus, Stratus, Breeze triplets and in the other corner is everything that's based on a Camry platform lol. (Camry, Solara, Avalon, ES, not to mention all the vehicles sharing the same V6 engine).

    TNGA isn't about platform sharing like VAG's MQB. Toyota has already done that. What TNGA is, is a method to reduce the number of parts of other components other than chassis. It's the thought that you can design multiple vehicles with the same driving position (so the driver's seat is mounted at roughly the same height, the steering wheel is mounted roughly in the same position and the pedals are mounted roughly in the same position). This is independent of the interior design or the chassis. Using my seat/wheel/pedal example above, this means Toyota can use the same seatbelt components (length, material, parts), same airbag part number (cause it's deploying at the same height for multiple cars) and same seat bolts and rails (but can be a slightly different seat design to match the vehicle's intent). This cuts down on the number of tests for different cars and cuts down on the number of different parts of the same component because multiple vehicles will use the same parts.


    Do you now see the difference between TNGA and platform sharing?
     
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  14. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    IMO, TNGA also eases the developing of every new model, because subcontractors have already parts for each core/match dimensions.
     
  15. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    this is exactly how it works... cost of the vehicle is decided by marketing deparment not engineering.

    Toyota has previously said that they will invest 60% of cost savings from TNGA into making cars more competitive (equipment, etc), I very much doubt they will be significantly reducing the price overall. But for instance it seems that in Japan and likely in Europe, Prius will have most advanced auto-brake system that Toyota has included in "base" vehicle.
     
  16. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    This is exactly how it works... parts shared are not visible to the end customer. TNGA is mostly about easier production and easier/flexible design, it is TPS 2.0 not part sharing galore.

    Daily Kanban had a nice article, Toyota showed an example of parts shared in interior - it was steering wheel and gear knob only.
    Toyota’s TNGA is TPS 2.0 - Daily Kanban

    Green - shared parts under TNGA
    Yellow - unique parts under TNGA


    [​IMG]
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    oh boy, another vehicle is going to get the steering wheel with the bedpan?:cool:
     
  18. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    Presumably as other models shift across to TNGA, they will share additional parts. The amount of sharing won't be clear until all models are TNGA and the cycle repeats.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    okay, but the urinal should be exclusive to the peeus.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Bisco, I can't figure when you're kidding anymore, yesterday you were ecstatic, saying you were going to buy one as soon as the boat touched the dock, lol. Maybe you will, while holding your nose?