Featured Tesla exec tells it like it is

Smart?

 

Go to an Hyundai dealer. You will see their "Equus". Look at the price tag.

 

Yes, but what 1% is buying this car?

 

Good call. Although I might call that a really high end roller skate.

 

If I was a 1%er I certainly would not be looking at a Tesla. I would be driving something Italian, with 12 cylinders!

 

Definitely not suggesting there's any "proper" behavior. Look at Apple and see how well they've done. Tesla was wise to follow this strategy. One can own only a relatively small share of a market but large share of the profits. And there is probably some degree of trickle-down effect.

 

12 cylinders of H2?

 

12 Cylinders of of red wine!

 

Obviously, there are different ways of judging a corporations behavior. It looked like your comment was based on what they built. My comment is based on how they spend their revenue. One unusual difference from other automakers in how direct and consistent the CEOs announcement of their business plan. A steady focus on sustainable manufacturing has been reflected in both Tesla's (i.e. Musk's) vision and actions.

Sustainable transportation has to be for the 0.1%, the 1%, the 10% and the remaining 90%. Sustainability should not be confused with profitability. There seems to be this damaging association between sustainability and sacrifice. Eventually it will dawn on the wider population that sustainability leads to higher standards of living for all involved, but that is still in the future.

 

DOH!!

 

um, best to check out Wiki - you'd find they 1st sold cars in South America ... then you'll find class actions against fraudulent mileage claims - as high as 6mpg .... and;

not that any of that makes 'em worse than our manufacturers

No one at Tesla as of yet - has been caught in any of these kinds of shenanigans. What do you think - maybe give them kudos for that?
IOW's just like VW - the all-too-common motive is greed ... do as little as necessary for the biggest return possible - w/out getting caught

and yet - some of the undocumented workers in our area, living 2 & 3 families to an apartment, will drive massive/new $60K + pickups. Maybe it's just priorities?
.

 

Not sure why you need to check Wiki, as all I was stating was that Hyundai started to sell cars in the USA in 1986 and that the car sold for a little as $5,000.00 fully loaded and that now they sell cars that cost $70K plus.

 

and yet - some of the undocumented workers in our area, living 2 & 3 families to an apartment, will drive massive/new $60K + pickups. Maybe it's just priorities?
.[/QUOTE]

Really? Last I checked if you don't have the credit you won't be driving any car, and certainly not a $60K car! So how does an undocumented worker who makes less then minumum wage afford any new car and insurance?

 

The Prius is where it is - a market leader. The same can't be said of the puny bev market.

DBCassidy

 

It's laughable that someone thinks high-end and Hyundai go together. Affordable yes. good on them for raising their 5K prices to 70K. <sarcasm>

Tesla will be fine with the 'secret plan'. And if Tesla falters, and others are making marque, as well as common-person EVs, mission accomplished. Win-win for everyone breathing air on planet Earth. Yes, it is THAT kind of big (but not so secret) plan. NO ONE else is even close.

PS yeah, yeah, the dates and deadlines are being stretched and such, but it's not easy disrupting over 100 years of doing things. energy and transport things. i'm more impressed with that than anything legacy mfgs are doing. I'm looking right at you Toyota. And i like their products! just not the completely and utterly dead-end that is their hydrogen path. Sorry, Elon is right.

 

Hyundai is not considered high end to you, but for an undocumented worker it sure is, and for most Americans they won't be driving a $70k Hyundai. But that was not my point. My point is that Tesla could of offered a car in the Leaf price range first so that more people could go GREEN, and Elon could change history faster.

 

Yeah, no reason they would even have to sell a car in that category at a loss.

From a business standpoint, makes more sense to soak the luxury segment for as long and deeply as one can without cannibalizing sales by opening up the lower end market. The 1%-ers would still buy the high end Model S and X vehicles, but the rest would have a lot more reason to go with a more affordable Tesla branded Leaf-type vehicle.

Suspect Musk would make the Steve Jobs argument of not yet being able to build a quality product in that category. I have much respect for both of these guys and their companies, but think that argument is a bit too convenient.

Good luck convincing the Tesla fans.

 

I think you missed the point that tesla wants to stay in business long enough for the revolution.

You realize Ford's first car was not a model t. Nissan has writen off billions of dollars for the leaf project. Tesla did not have that money to burn. I certainly would not have bought tesla stock, nor would have akio toyoda, or mercedes. Adoption is slow.

I am also not sure where this 1% comes from.
Defining rich in America: What are the income cutoffs?
It seems in polls the adopter market is for either wealth or income. On the income side $125,000 appears to be the range. This is the top 13% of incomes. $54,000 is the top 50% of incomes. I would say most households makeing less than $54,000 don't buy new cars, which means the top 50% is really the top 80% when it comes to cars. That means the top 21% of new car buyers can probably afford a tesla, or an equis, or a lexus LS, merceds S, etc.

Battery costs are coming down about 14%/year, and need to drop further for the model 3 or bolt or 200 mile leaf to make sense. Tesla and Chevy Nissan think they will be cheap enough sometime in 2018, and plan to release cars before then.

US sales of the model S have bit into sales of the mecedes E and S, BMW 5 and 7, Audi A6 and A8, Lexus LS and GS. THe model 3 might hit the bead and butter MB C, BMW 3 and M3, Audi A3 and A4 and S4, Lexus IS and ES. This is the heart of the sports sedan market, and a well made model 3 could outsell the prius in the US, Europe, and Japan.,

I don't see the convience. Battery prices always needed to come down for the model 3 to be priced right for the catagory. Now its a matter of doing the engineering.. We should see a prototype in march, and sales and end of 2017 or 2018, depending on how long it takes to get it right. There just are not enough engineers at tesla to pop it out fast. The gen IV prius took 6.5 years and it was a minor change, this is a major design.

 

Well Toyota keeps telling me how "Viscerally Appealing" the new Gen 4 Prius is....so perhaps they are trying?

I agree with a lot of what is being said about the majority of the auto industry NOT being in the Electric Vehicle game. It's simply the truth.

But it's still mostly "Company Man" speaking "Company Talk".

Tesla can feign to want the competition, and backhandedly insult the rest of the majority of the auto industry for NOT building a product like theirs, but the truth is Tesla is a laudable and admirable "Pioneer".

Right now, it's still early in the Electric Vehicle evolution. Right now it's kind of like the earliest day's of motorized buggies. They may be the future, but MOST of us are still hitching up horses.

And it's a bit or a whole lot disingenuous to suggest that the rest of the auto industry is building "bad products" or products that aren't viscerally appealing to their customers. I hate to say it, but it's still the Internal Combustion Engine Age, and as much as Tesla would like a rapid evolution to nationwide charging centers, and worthy or even unworthy competition to their own product(s), it's going to happen at a slower pace than they would probably like.

I do think however Tesla should be applauded for breaking ground. The product they have created is great and I think has shown that an Electric Vehicle doesn't have to be a limited range, utilitarian compromise. I would hope that eventually other automaker follow suit. BUT at this early a stage? Mainstream large automakers, which HAVE to build for and to the masses, cannot match the smaller Tesla ability to be specific and creative. It's probably as unfair for Tesla to accuse the major automakers of failing to follow them, as it would be for Toyota to wonder out loud why Tesla hasn't marketed a gasoline powered Corolla.

 

Have seen slightly different numbers for income and wealth from different sources. From this article you linked:

According to the World Top Incomes Database, a household income of about $113,000 lands you at the top 10th
​

Now subtract out federal, state, property, other yearly sales taxes, Medicare, Social Security and the $$$ tax on the Tesla itself. Consider that the average Tesla sells for $100k and that some of these 10%-ers may not even get the full $7,500 tax credit (they may get a State incentive like here in CA).

Tesla does not appear to release numbers on the income demographics of their customers. But if a 10%-er is buying the average Tesla, he is spending more than 1-years worth of his after tax income. Sure, there are some doing this. But how common could this be and is it not fair to say this is an extremely poor financial decision?