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URGENT to PG&E E-7 Customers - Rate Shaft Coming

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by bilofsky, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    Update (11/30/15): See update here. To be safe, I recommend switching from E-7 to E-6 today.

    Customers on PG&E’s E-7 rate have 12 days to act to avoid getting screwed. This is particularly important to those with solar electric installations. E-7 will go away shortly, and E-6, the best alternative, will close to new customers.

    Bottom line - E-7 customers should call PG&E and switch to the E-6 rate by November 30, or as soon after that as you can.

    Anyone else considering E-6, or planning to install solar electric panels in the near future, should do that too.

    Earlier this month, the PUC (PG&E’s Utility Chums) approved a new solar-hostile rate structure*. It can go into effect as early as Jan. 1, 2016, but in no event later than June 1, 2016.

    When that occurs, two bad things will happen:
    1. E-7 customers will be shafted - I mean shifted - to the new E-TOU rate
    2. E-6 will be closed to new customers.
    PG&E requires a month’s notice for you to switch to E-6. E-7 customers should do that now, before the end of November.

    What can happen to your bill if you don’t switch? In my personal case, with solar and EVs, it would go up about $400 a year. E-6 isn’t great – I’ll get a $200 bump – but not as bad as E-TOU. Even the default E-1 rate would be better than E-TOU.

    It’s likely that PG&E won’t be able to implement E-TOU by Jan. 1. Best guess by those who know would be March 1. The stated deadline is June 1. But whenever they turn E-TOU on, your deadline to switch to E-6 will have expired a month before that date. And you probably won’t know until after it happens.

    So even if you've missed the Nov. 30 deadline, you may still be able to get onto E-6, and should do that right away. Chances are you'll be OK until the end of January, but no guarantees.

    The safest thing for E-7 customers is to switch to E-6 by November 30.

    -----------------------------------------

    * - To see the details and the proposed new rates, go here. The Appendix has the transition provisions starting on page 11, and the rates are at the end.
     
    #1 bilofsky, Nov 19, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
    PriusC_Commuter, iplug and roflwaffle like this.
  2. roflwaffle

    roflwaffle Member

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    The link isn't working for me, but that's good to know. Thanks!
     
  3. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    Link fixed. The earlier one was to a search and it might have expired. This goes straight to the two documents.
     
  4. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    Update: I talked to a supervisor at PG&E's solar call center. She said there is an internal document that E-7 will be closed March 1.

    This would mean the deadline for switching from E-7 to E-6 would be February 1.

    I find this credible, and discussion within the industry corroborates the March 1 date.

    But as I can't take it to the bank, I will check back with them before Nov. 30 by which time they may have a customer communication ready. Or not.

    In case of doubt, it would be better to switch early. The penalty for being on E-6 during the winter is relatively small and temporary.
     
  5. jack520

    jack520 Member

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    On my PGE bill it says i have E6 SB Residential Time of Use Service.... so I should be okay ? Why did you have E7 before and not E6 ?
     
  6. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    Yes, you don't need to do anything. This is just for those on E-7.

    E-7 is a more solar-favorable rate available up until 2006, when PG&E put in E-6. Those on E-7 were able to stay on it.

    My solar panels were installed in early 2006. Despite generous rebates, the high cost of PV systems at that time meant the payback would be over a decade. With PG&E's new solar-hostile rates, my system will probably never pay for itself.
     
  7. greenleaf

    greenleaf Member

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    Thanks for your post. My solar went up in 2010 and I'm on E6. Unfortunately, after reading your links, it looks like even E6 will also go away in another 5 years or so.
     
  8. macman408

    macman408 Electron Guidance Counselor

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    I'm already on E-6, and they've already shafted me by doubling the minimum monthly charge to $10; that's an extra $60 a year that I wasn't planning on forking over when I installed the system last December.

    Maybe I should start selling discount power to anybody that wants to charge their EV at my house. As of the end of October, I have about $170 worth of electricity that I could use before my bill would increase at all (on the annual "true-up" bill, which should come in December); I'll use maybe $40 of that myself, after accounting for what my solar system will continue to produce and the next two months of minimum charges. So that means I have about 750 kWh to spare. Anybody want some? ;) (BYO L2 Charger :D)
     
  9. greenleaf

    greenleaf Member

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    macman408, I am in a similar situation, with $80+ in credit that does not get to offset the new delivery fee of $10+ a month. Since the annual true-up is coming next month, I have switched to using electric space heaters to heat my house instead of the natural gas fired furnace. A little bit more inconvenient but hack better than being "scammed" off by PG&E.
     
  10. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    Macman408 and greenleaf:

    Although state law requires PG&E to pay you for excess generation, the definition of that (doubtless written by PG&E) is actual kWh. For example, you may have generated 5000 mostly expensive kWh and used 6000 largely cheap kWh. So you have a cash credit, but you are still 1000 kWh short of having excess generation. Your solar installation would have to be vastly oversized in order to have excess kWh's of generation, and if you did, you would be getting paid way below market value for them.

    If you are in an area served by a Community Choice Aggregator (CCA) such as Marin Clean Energy (Marin County and some other communities), you can get paid the fair value for your generation. MCE pays me per kWh exactly what I would pay them in that TOU period, plus a penny for "Deep Green" since I am selling them 100% renewable power. They just sent me a check for over $300. Unfortunately PG&E still charges for delivering the energy, and games the tariffs so I have to pay them a lot of what I make from MCE. But I still come out ahead compared to buying energyfrom them.

    If you are not in a CCA area, ask your county and city legislators to start a CCA or join an existing one. PG&E tried to kill CCAs by Prop. 16 in 2010 and subsequently in the legislature, but fortunately they lost both times.
     
  11. greenleaf

    greenleaf Member

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    Yes, I know of this. I have a net credit in $ but not in kWh. So the credit will be wasted if I don't use it. Like I said, I am currently using electric space heaters to heat my home.

    When I installed the solar panels, the installer advised me that it is more cost effective to just have a system that is sufficient to eliminate the 2nd tiers and higher. My current system is sized in this way.
     
  12. macman408

    macman408 Electron Guidance Counselor

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    Yep, I'm aware of that as well. I'm probably on track to get about a $2 credit for excess kWh production.

    Makes me wish I had more electric appliances; heat, stove, hot water, and clothes dryer are all gas. There's a wall-mounted electric heater in the bedroom that I wanted to try using, but I discovered that a previous owner used half of the 240V circuit to power the ceiling fan they added, and then disconnected the other side of the 240V connection. Since I have no idea what they did to the wires in the wall, I'm not about to try hooking it back up...

    ...Oh well, just more incentive to get that EV, right? Or move to a different state... For $1000, SolarCity will move my solar panels to a different house!
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    the total irony / BS about this is that it flies in the face of Schwarzenegger's signed in legislation from years ago. Those stated goals/ rates are supposed to reflect encouragement of PV. Yet each new rule games it for the utility that much more. They pay you bare bones for your summer surplus - then sell it to your neighbors for a 10 fold premium .... all the while crying how pv hurts poor people because we get a break. Really? You pay $30k up front for your juice ... it stabilizes a weak grid ... & somehow we become bad people. Gotta love it.
    .
     
    #13 hill, Nov 22, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  14. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    Write to Jerry Brown. He's got all these initiatives for saving energy and going green, but he appoints the entire PUC which is PG&E's lapdog and could care less about making good public policy.
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Utility exec's don't have to fear the governor - they make sure that the utility lobby pays handsomely to their re-election campaigns - regardless of what side is in power. From there - it's a free ride, until their incompetency outweighs their pay. That often happens pretty quickly;
    Yahoo, HP, PG&E showered departing execs with millions - San Jose Mercury News
    Not bad - contractually getting to leave with a ton of dough - even as your glaring failures manifest. This kind of travesty has gone on for decades, and it won't likely end very soon - sad to say. PG & E is not alone - SoCal Edison is in the same predicament. It's part of the reason that San Onofre nuke is offline forever, even as the nuclear waste sits, languishing for someplace to be stored in the very distant future - hopefully before some tsunami carries it miles and miles inland.
    .
     
    #15 hill, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  16. CaliforniaBear

    CaliforniaBear Clearwater Blue Metallic

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    It sounds like the folks unhappy about the increased monthly minimum have over powered their system out of the "savings range" and into the "nice to have so much power range". I was told before installing that excess energy beyond my annual usage would be sold back to PG&E at a very low rate so the design goal was to save 80% of my annual cost. My investment after rebates was $12K and I've been saving over $1000 per year compared to previous E1 rates. 1st year on EV (similar to E7) $1080, 2nd year on E6 $1220. 3rd year on track to be similar to 2nd year. The various and frequent rate changes haven't made much difference. I don't know how my present system would compare if I had previously use a TOU rate but I suspect a TOU without solar would be a disaster, we love our A/C.
     
  17. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    I wonder if SCE will be changing up their rates soon as well again.
     
  18. bilofsky

    bilofsky Privolting Member

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    Update: November 30, 2015. Nothing has changed. Everyone who is willing to name a date says the switchover will probably be March 1, 2016. But there is nothing in writing and no requirement to give notice. The PG&E call center says there will be no problem switching later, but I don't trust them.

    So you can probably switch into E-6 until late January 2016 but the last absolutely safe day is today, November 30, 2016.

    If you are already on E-6 you don't need to do anything. If you are on any other rate, you should evaluate whether E-6 would be better for you and, if so, switch now, since it will soon become unavailable.

    So I still recommend switching today, and will reluctantly do so myself. To switch, call 877-743-4112 option 4 and then 0. The hours are M-F 8-5.

    Note that starting in 2021, E-6 itself will gradually degrade, and will be eliminated entirely by 2023.
     
  19. NeilPeart

    NeilPeart Hybrid & PiP Convert

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    Does E6 make sense without a PV system? Most of my appliances are efficient natural gas, but my house and has no upgrades other than poorly installed double-pane windows. The current bill hovers around $300 in winter and $500 in summer. I'm currently on the EV-A plan, which allows me to charge my PiP during off-peak hours. I was considering installing a PV system when the roof needs to be re-done in 5 years. Is that still a wise move or has PG&E reduced the financial incentives of PV systems? Sorry for the newb questions - I am still learning about PG&E plans.
     
  20. greenleaf

    greenleaf Member

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    On page 11 of the second document from the link you provided, its states

    "Existing E-7 customers may also elect to transfer to Schedule E-6 if they have submitted an E-6 rate change request one month prior to the date on which Schedule E-6 is closed to new customers."

    Also, anyone read the following article from the LA Times?
    Why rooftop solar advocates are upset about California's clean-energy law - LA Times

    I guess we have our legislators partly to blame for PG&E's changes.