Featured Tesla exec tells it like it is

Tesla did not change motors, but received engineering knowledge. MSRP is $49,000.00. This year I looked at one priced at $58K

 

I have never heard about tesla recieving engineering that made it into any car but the rav4 ev. Timing just makes it doubtful, and we know toyota would not share their braking software with tesla. Tesla did benefit as well as Toyota
How Tesla-Toyota Project Led to Culture Clash by Opposites: Cars - Bloomberg Business

I don't know what dealer you looked at with a hiked up price of $58K. Perhaps they were adding some extra big dealer market up because it was one of the last ones made. That certainly is much higher than MSRP. Since there were only a small number of dealers there is always the chance of the unscrupulouls one hiking up the price. The average transaction was far bellow MSRP. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by inflating the price.

Certainly the rush to do the car in 2 years and toyota's high pricing and low quantity goals hurt the potential sales of a vehicle that as say a second gen Lexus NX BEV would see potential. Still I would be suprised if toyota didn't use some of what it learned on the project in upcoming plug-ins and fuel cell vehicles.

 

Look at the states with dealer franchise laws that mandate their continued existence - some of those laws being quite ironclad. The use of those laws now are to keep the likes of Tesla out. Competing Manufacturer's Dealers assert more sway over "outlier's" sales than they should otherwise be able to as mere sales channels. Ever think how the competition's shenanigans might just be at least part of the reason Tesla would be inclined to tell it like it is?
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I sell you mines for $58k.

 

We have heard from both GM and Nissan that part of their problems in selling the volt and leaf are the dealer networks that don't want to sell them. It's an on going process for them to educate the dealers. I am in one of those states where tesla can't sell their cars through the stores, but you can see and test drive them in the show rooms, then order it on-line. Still texas is one of the best selling states for tesla, and I see them all the time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/science/electric-car-auto-dealers.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=0

 

Your sarcasm makes no sense......

 

I think that your plan wouldn't work for an EV as it is. But I imagine very few people currently have a plan like yours. But couldn't the spikes in your usage, and others be fixed with battery storage?

Mike

 

Actually I think an EV would work on my rate plan and very well if:

1. The charger had a timer that allowed it to come on at a certain time.
2. The vehicle would fully charge within that night time window of low rates.
3. I was a commuter whose commute was within 1/3 of the fully-charged range of the vehicle (allow for climate changes with the seasons, range anxiety, etc)
4. I worked in a job where I didn't have to go out to other locations or, if I did, the company provided transport. If I didn't have to go to the airport and fly out from there leaving my car depleted.
5. The economics worked. Cost (of car and charger installation). Depreciation, Maintenance. Fuel.

I bought gas today for the first time in around a month at a cost of several dollars less than the time of use rate plan saved me last bill in a very low use month. So the hurdle is high.

You are right, few have a plan like mine. It was so good, the electric company closed the plan to new sign-ups. I'm grandfathered. All they offer now is a plan that allows them to shut off my appliances when they need to.

 

Huh?

During the late '70s and early '80s, the Japanese government had concerns about car emissions and city air quality. They started the first LEV(low emission vehicle) program then. It was administered by MITI, and partnered with the domestic auto companies. Some early BEVs, using mostly lead-acid with some NiMH, came out of the programs, but it also included research into hybrids. It was this program that provided the first incentives for selling these hybrids and BEVs, including the first Prius.

So there was some government nudging beyond tightening of emission and fuel efficiency regulations that got Toyota to make the Prius. The 'save the world' drive wasn't purely internal, if at all.

Before the arrival of the Prius in the US, Toyota wanted into the highly profitable full size truck market. For the Tundra redesign, they decided to make it the biggest pick up truck in the class. So in the middle of the gen2 Prius' run, Toyota released the thirstiest truck on the market in 2007. Even now, while the US brands worked on improving fuel efficiency in their trucks, the Tundra can't even get a 20mpg rating on the highway. Compare Side-by-Side



I admit to not staying on top of truck news, and this may have changed with the VW cheating diesels, but the Toyota was planning on putting a 5L V8 Cummings turbo diesel into their truck.

Lexus? Rich history, really? Shouldn't Lincoln and Cadillac be on the list then too. They both have more history than Lexus.

It has had an impact on the manufacturers that compete in the same market as the Model S.

Because of tightening emission regulations, and lost sales to Tesla, it will have only 8 cylinders and a plug.

It's a long thread, but he does have a Leaf.

Hyundai Motor America is a wholly owned subsidiary of Hyundai Motor Company, which was founded in 1967. Since Hyundai didn't want their USA venture to fail, they gave it plenty of financial support. The Excel wasn't designed by Hyundai USA, but by the global parent as a replacement for the Hyundai Pony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. While the Excel was Hyundai's first car to sell in the US, the Pony was the first car they designed and built themselves.

The ICE car industry was already well established, with people wanting cars, when Hyundai showed up on the scene. Neither was the Model T the first car to market. The first models made by Ford Motoring Company(not even Ford's first car company) sold for 3 to 10 times the amount of the Model T's price.

What car with a price of $50,000 and higher doesn't have some level of status attached to it?

Then what reason was there for Toyota and Mercedes to even partner with Tesla? The two needed a compliance car for CARB, and it was cheaper to outsource the drive train and battery to Tesla.

 

there were many other japanese car companies when all that happened. only toyota made the prius. honda made an insight, impractical at best, and never followed up until they saw toyota's success. you guys just hate toyota, why not admit it and be done with it?

 

I don't know why you insist on this.
I've owned a couple of Prius, and wish everyone had been driving them 5 years ago.

Am I disappointed in the lack of a plugin option from Toyota? You bet! But I certainly don't hate them.
We would be in worse shape without them.

 

that's all i'm saying. why do i insist on asking people to give them their cred? because it's due. why twist it into, 'well toyota makes the thirstiest trucks'. what does one have to do with the other?

 

Toyota helped create and has long dominated the hybrid segment with the Prius, pushing the consciousness of efficiency and cleaner vehicles forward.

No one yet has replicated this to a similar extent with a PHEV/BEV. May happen in a few years, but still, not yet...

 

Typically that only comes up when someone makes some silly statement like "Toyota's goal is to lower GHGs" or something to that effect.
I agree, if the subject is the Prius, Toyota's gas guzzlers have nothing to do with it.

 

agreed, i think many posts are taken out of context, because the responder doesn't read the thread from the beginning. (i am guilty of this)

i also think some are harboring resentment because of arguments in other threads, and wind up responding inappropriately to anything stated that is contrary to their opinion.

 

Then where is all the cred for Honda? They were offering high efficiency models/trims going back to the '80s, and fuel efficiency was one of their founding goals. Honda, the guy, started out making fuel efficiency bicycle engines to conserve the limited resource after the war.

They resisted making a V6, or their own full size SUV. They don't have a V8. They make home/apartment building cogen ICE units for power and heat that are as thermally efficient as fuel cell ones. Need something that is powered by an ICE, and Honda is probably at the top of the list for fuel efficiency and reliability. They wanted to make a fuel efficient jet engine, but ended up making the whole plane.

This was the silly statement.

The Prius is a low emission, high efficiency marvel, that is also a great, all around car. My only real complaint isn't with the car, but with where Toyota doesn't build them.

Toyota didn't decide to build it because they wanted to save the world though. They are quit willing to put aside the standards of fuel efficiency and low emissions to chase profit. Otherwise, their product development would have been closer to Honda's.

Nissan isn't out to save the world either. Instead of playing catch up with Toyota in hybrids, they decided to gamble on BEVs. There is clean and green goals there, but staying competitive is also one of them.

Tesla, and it wasn't founded by Musk, started out to bring a practical BEV to market. Making money is there, but it is also about showing that it isn't impossible. That we aren't irrevocably chained to the ICE and oil.

 

ironically, after the traditional auto industry's mantra that no one wants plugins turned out to not be true - evidenced by hundreds of thousands now on the roads of the US - Parts of the industry fight to keep Tesla's sales model from even existing in their jurisdictions. hmmmmm
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It is rather fun to see the legacy automakers and dealers fight these little battles with Tesla while Telsa is getting ready for a much larger undertaking to overtake a huge chunk of the auto industry. The huge size of the Freemont facilities and the astounding size of the Gigafactory are not normal efforts to work a small niche of the auto industry. They are the first steps in a huge wave of change. Things are going to get very interesting once the depressed price of gas returns to economic reality.

I've always liked the description of a PHEV as an EV with training wheels. I may have a transient PHEV between now and when Tesla is very mainstream. The inception point is probably less than a decade away. Time to start thinking beyond training wheels.

 

can't find where i said 'toyota is in it to save the world."

 

The post I quoted implied it, or that that was the driving force for developing the Prius.