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Cold weather got me down!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Iowa gal, Nov 30, 2015.

?
  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. No

    12 vote(s)
    85.7%
  1. Iowa gal

    Iowa gal New Member

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    Has anyone had problems in cold weather? My "starter" battery froze! I assume this is the 12 volt? I guess I need to use a higher octane gas in cold weather....? We are hoping that changing to 87 octane will solve the problem. Can anyone confirm this?
     

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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I've had to start in -30°C/-22°F temperatures and never had a problem (Granted when it was parked outside overnight, it was plugged into a power outlet. I used an engine block heater but that only warms the engine and not the 12V battery).

    87? What were you running in earlier? The recommended octane grade for the Prius v is 87.
     
  3. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Excuse my potential ignorance, but why would changing the octane of your gasoline have any impact on your 12 volt battery?
    I would surmise if you are having trouble with your 12 volt battery? The problem lies within the 12 volt battery. Might be time to replace.
     
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  4. Iowa gal

    Iowa gal New Member

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    I have been using E 15. A mix of ethanol 15%.
    I did replace the battery, but not until it was necessary to tow it 90 miles to the nearest dealer!
    The service department at the dealership just said that the battery was frozen and they thought that was all the damage. They thought that the higher octane gas would solve the problem. So, there probably was more to it than the battery. After the check engine light came on, it just quit working. Couldn't even get it in neutral to get it towed. Finally was able to jump the battery to get it in neutral.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome! and, wow.

    have you owned the car since new? how often do you drive it?

    i voted yes, but thought the poll was about me, not my car. car is fine in the cold, i can barely get my motor running.

    i don't think gasoline has anything thing to do with it, but the service department probably things it will run better on 87. what octane is e15?

    keep in mind the 12 volt battery only fires computers and relays. hybrid battery starts the engine.

    if your 12v froze, it's because it was near dead. a healthy battery won't freeze in temps you can survive in.
     
    #5 bisco, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
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  6. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Well, I don't live in a climate that routinely get's and stays as cold as where you are at.
    Even though we do get some cold, cold stretches or nights.
    Never had my 12 volt "freeze".

    To simply answer your first question, I'd say No, not a lot of reports of people having trouble with Prius in colder climates. They seem to be built to be usable in a wide range of environmental temperatures.

    Whatever is causing your difficulties in starting your Prius? I hope it is as simple as simply changing gasoline.

    There's a lot of debate about E-15 gasoline, and honestly? I don't know. But for simplification purposes, I'd avoid it if at all possible.

    My understanding is that E-15 is actually a slightly higher octane. 88 as opposed to 87.
    According to current information and propaganda, using it shouldn't either solve a starting problem or cause a starting problem.
     
    #6 The Electric Me, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Towing should be with front wheels off the ground, no need for car to be in neutral then. Just ensure parking brake is off.
     
  8. Iowa gal

    Iowa gal New Member

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    Is it possible that when the engine wasn't running well, the electronic motor tried to take up the slack, running down and freezing the battery?? Just guessing.
    Good to know! The guy who towed it wasn't aware of that.
     
  9. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    I think the service adviser you talked to was not really up to speed. Battery may have gone dead but a jump should have fixed that, if you know how to do it safely. Once they jumped it and got it into "Ready" mode, it probably would have drove away.

    Low temps will impact a 12v batteries capacity, so if it was weak then maybe it failed, but just as likely would have been an interior light left on that drained the battery temporarily.

    The only thing I can think about changing gas is that a higher concentration of alcohol may have allowed for more water in the tank "possibly" freezing something in the fuel system. However this is highly unlikely.
     
  10. Iowa gal

    Iowa gal New Member

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    Yes, it sat outside àll day that day, so the battery must have lost it's charge, then froze. Thanks for the information!
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no, it doesn't run on the 12 volt battery. there's a huge 200 volt battery under the spare tyre.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Exactly. A 12V battery needs to be nearly completely discharged in order to freeze in common cold weather.
     
  13. Iowa gal

    Iowa gal New Member

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    You are really great at looking at alll possibilities! I don't think it was the fuel system, because although we did have snow and ice, I don't believe the temperature was low enough to freeze somewhere in the fuel system.
     
  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Very common for a weak 12v battery to need replacement in cold weather. Cold is good for the life of the battery, but bad for the power output. So during the summer the 12v batt is weakening, but the hot weather allows a decent power output, until it get's colder and then Wham you need a new 12v.

    You're probably better off using normal E10 if you can get it, but E15 probably OK. I don't think Toyota approves E15 for 2010 models, could cause some codes to go off, not sure.
     
  15. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Moved from the Prius v forums to the gen 3 forums.
     
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  16. qdllc

    qdllc Senior Member

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    On batteries....

    Heat kills your battery. Cold is when it is the most taxed. Harder starts = more CCA needed to do the job, and a weak battery shows it's condition when under load.

    Normally, you'd check your battery in the summer, and I know the Prius has its 12V more sheltered, but this is why it seems your 12V struggles or even fails in wintertime.
     
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  17. FuelMiser

    FuelMiser Senior Member

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    It's kind of buried in the Owner's Manual, but Toyota says "do not use any fuel that could contain more than 10% ethanol, such as E15" It's under section 6-1 Specifications, Fuel Information. This is from my 2013 manual...

    CURIOUS FOLLOW-UP: I remembered that fuel specs are also printed on the fuel filler cap, so I checked my 2013 filler cap, and it says no more then 10% ethanol per the owner's manual. Then I checked the cap on the 2014 we also have, and it allows E15! And the manual for the 2014 states E15 is acceptable also. I guess the Ethanol lobby finally got to Toyota!

    Still, fuel/engine and 12 volt battery are not related, so I'd say you just hit the perfect storm of a dead 12v battery AND a poorly running motor at the same time. Your poorly running motor is certainly due to the fuel choice you made. You never said how many miles are on this car. If you're at 100K miles or more, you probably need a good tune up (spark plugs, throttle body cleaning, etc.) to get the motor running properly again.
     
  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    E15 disclaimers are simply a liability-avoidance tool that the automaker uses. It's industry wide. Why accept extra expense primarily caused by lack of understanding and information?
     
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  19. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    First, it sounds to me like it was the original battery. It was time to replace it. If you discharge a lead acid battery the electrolyte becomes more water, less acid. The temp. the battery will freeze at rises. Still, in Iowa, I doubt very much your battery froze. What was the temp? Well below 0F? So, a battery that needs to be replaced will freeze at a higher temp than a "good" battery. But I still doubt it actually froze. But it probably did need to be replaced.

    Second, the fuel you use has -NOTHING- to do with freezing the battery!!! Or with the battery failing. It was old.
    E15 will probably work just fine in the Prius, though Toyota strongly recommends use of E10 max. You will get better mileage with E10, but E15 will probably burn cleaner. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
    I would follow Toyota's recommendation. E10.
     
  20. bisco

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    is e15 cheaper, based on energy and mpg's?