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Keurig vs Saeco Vienna espresso

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Feb 6, 2016.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Many years ago, I learned that espresso is superior to urn or pot coffee. Instead of 3-4 mugs, I dropped to 1-2 cuppas and loved it. I didn't have to make bathroom breaks every 1-2 hours and it tasted better. So then I experimented with different coffees and settled on home roasted, Kona bought directly from the coffee grower. It was so good, I stopped using milk, black espresso. Then our automated espresso machine, Saeco Vienna made a 'bad sound' and no more pressure.

    I didn't have time to fix it right away so I picked up a Keurig 2.0 at Costco and started the experiment. Yech, are they deliberately using crap coffee in the pods? Unlike espresso that is uniform and dark, this was a brown liquid, often bitter demanding milk. First thought, well these pods were packed with the machine and may have been months old. Use them up and get fresh from the store.

    So I found a 'French Roast' and tried them for a week. Yeck, these are like the last ones . . . ran out of milk. But I found the 'fill your own beans' pods and bought a couple. At home, I still had some green Kona and roasted some up.

    Tonight I had my first, fresh roasted Kona, in the single serving Keurig. YECK! It is not the coffee, it is how the machine works.

    A Keurig is not a pressure-driven but a single-cup, drip maker. Forcing water at the right temperature through the packed grinds is the secret to a good cuppa. It gives a uniform coffee drink (i.e., no thin water edges) that has taste and flavors. The 'drip' method leaves the better tasting and mild-enhancing oils and flavors in the grinds.

    So this weekend, I'll take the Saeco apart and remove the boiler/pump and order a replacement. In the meanwhile, I'll bring my work, manual espresso machine home.

    As for the Keurig, I'll give it away at work along with the 'load it yourself' pods or possibly give it to the Unitarian Church. 'Lessons learned.'

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    "He who would trade flavor for some temporary convenience, deserves neither flavor nor convenience."
    - Benjamin Franklin
     
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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    How to fix the Saeco:


    Bob Wilson
     
  4. Blizzard_Persona

    Blizzard_Persona Senior Member

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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    doesn't keurig make a special espresso machine?

    the keurig story is fascinating. i was reading it a few weeks ago because they were just purchased by some dutch venture caps for 13 billion or something, and one of the original inventors (from new england) sold out years ago for 50 grand. he lives around here, and they interviewed him. he said he wasn't bitter, even though his coffee may be.:cool:
     
  6. Blizzard_Persona

    Blizzard_Persona Senior Member

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    I do like my Keurig dont get me wrong, But on my days off I think I would rather brew a pot instead of being wasteful with the kups... and as stated above make some specialty brews and enjoy then whenever I want..
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I saw the WalMart version last night and it reminded me of what I started with 15 years ago. Those traditional machines are fine starters and a good place to learn what works. I am skeptical about the 'milk' container. Save money and get the non-milk version.

    Some lesson's learned:
    1. Grinder is important and I'm using a Mr. Coffee grinder which is much improved over the 'whirly gig' machines of the past. Now some purist claim they generate non-uniform grinds with 'coffee dust'. However, I never found that to be a problem. Still, burr grinders are available for reasonable prices. For a starter, Mr. Coffee is just fine.
    2. Coffee - originally I used a 50/50 mix of French roast and Sumatrian. It gave a good body without the 'jitters.' But I still had to use a moderating adjunct, typically 1/2 a tea spoon of condensed milk, to buffer the bitter. I went about six years this way using the bulk coffee beans found at the grocery stores. Then I mixed the beans in the bag and taking them home to grind and brew. The specialty labeled espresso beans turned out to be dreck.
    3. Coffee II - a local coffee roaster offered over 20 different specialty beans. Starting from the cheapest and going up, I would buy 1/4 lb bags and test. Eventually, I took some $25/lb Kona and my bean search was over. Then I bought green, $17/lb and took home and learned how to home roast.
    4. Home roasting - I've never used the popcorn air roaster but several automated roasters that control temperature and duration. My approach is the minimum temperature to roast and maximum time. I want to preserve the oils and flavors and not make coffee charcoal. In roasting, there are phases: first crack; second crack; oil, and; charcoal. Similar to popcorn but less intense, the green coffee becomes hard on the outside and as the roast continues, the inside expands and mechanically causes a 'crack' in the bean. As it continues, the next layer does the same as the center finishes. Then the roast begins to drive the oils to the surface making the beans get a glossy surface. My goal is to stop just before 'oil.' Beyond this lies charcoal which has no taste or use . . . barely worth chewing. The last phase is called 'fire.' But of all the home roasters, the best and longest lasting has been a table-top, convection, toaster oven. Lowest price and longest lasting. A rotisserie would work better but you'd have to assemble your own wire-mesh container.
    5. At the recommendation of a Usenet coffee group, I learned about Smithfarms on Kona Hawaii. I order 10 lbs of green coffee that arrives about a week later. The green beans have nearly unlimited shelf life if they are kept from drying out. Anyone who ships green beans in a burlap bag is doing no flavors. A sealed container is best, room temperature works.
    6. I typically roast just under a 16 oz cup of green beans at a time. This typically last about 7-10 days.
    7. It is so good, I no longer buy milk but drink it black. One cuppa in the morning and sometimes one late in the afternoon before commuting home. I'm alert, my tummy doesn't hurt, and no jitters.
    I also have the original T-shirt: EspressoTshirt V8 DARKshirtFINAL T-Shirt > FRCN Digital Imaging

    Bob Wilson

    BTW, I was looking at H-bomb architecture a couple of weeks ago and realized it provided exactly the architecture needed to pack the K-cuppa. Curiously, no one makes a tamper needed to replicate what I did in the kitchen this morning with a soda straw and spoon. Regardless, I have a fix.

    No, Keurig does not replicate a true expresso machine because it complains if there is too much back-pressure on the hot water feed. It will never replicate the creme of fresh roasted, quality coffee from a 15-bar espresso machine. But at least it is drinkable.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. Blizzard_Persona

    Blizzard_Persona Senior Member

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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Yes but I keep 5 ... would be higher but married.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. Blizzard_Persona

    Blizzard_Persona Senior Member

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    ;) Understood completely.


    What's your take on the above machine by Dealonghi? I'm kinda getting tempted by it but would hate to get my throat slit in the night if the CFO ever saw the receipt...:ROFLMAO:
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I prefer things that can spoil be refrigerated. Otherwise, no problem.

    Understand the traditional machines were important to to helping me find the coffee of choice. The bin tends to make experimentation less easy.

    Bob Wilson
     
  12. Blizzard_Persona

    Blizzard_Persona Senior Member

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    If you mean the milk container, most of them are removable and can be easily placed in the fridge when not in use.
     
  13. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    I feel like I've given pod coffee a fair chance, and I simply don't like it. Espresso, I like, but not enough to buy a big fancy machine and learn how to use it to produce the proper quality. So, I'll stick with a hand grinder and a French press. For camping, an Aeropress seems to do the trick, but it's not quite the same.

    I've also tried two fancy variable-temperature kettles, but they both died a premature death, and I'm back to a whistling stove top kettle.