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2007 Prius, ICE won't start

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by davez51, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. davez51

    davez51 New Member

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    II
    I have a 2007 Prius that had a rotational noise on acceleration. I bought it at an auction to sell. People love these, they sell super fast.
    I pinpointed the noise to the transmission area and suspected something was wrong with the electric motor. I took it to a local transmission shop and they disassembled the transmission to replace a bearing.
    After repairs, they called me and informed me that the hybrid battery needed to be replaced. I've been driving the car for about a week with the noise and had no indication of a battery problem, or any other problem.
    I had them tow the car back to my shop. The hybrid battery was discharged. The battery blocks were all between 10 and 12 volts. The vehicle would move slowly, but the ICE wouldn't start up to charge the battery. It had one DTC for hybrid battery malfunction.
    I removed the battery from my own Prius and installed it in the car. The ICE fired up right away and shut off soon after, which would be completely normal in my car. But the engine never started again. I drove a short distance all on electric. The battery bars depleted quickly. Regen braking was not operating. There was a shudder every so often on acceleration. I'm not sure if it's in the transmission or the ICE is attempting to start? There are no DTCs so far. The screen indicating where the power is going indicates that the engine is ON and delivering power even when it clearly is not.
    Not sure where to go with this one. It seems really odd that the ICE started once and won't start up. I tried disconnecting the battery and starting over, but the ICE still does not start up.
    I looked around the transmission for something disconnected, but found nothing.
    I'm finding out how little I know about my own car.
    Any ideas?
     
  2. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    Gday, all points to MG1 in the transaxle! personally I would be questioning the mechanic that replaced the bearing for you. Doubt it was an existing problem at time of purchase as the Prius relies on MG1 to charge the traction battery and ICE startup also relies on MG1 via the traction battery, if it was an existing problem I guess the traction battery would have been dead flat at time of purchase and the ICE would have not started from word go.​

    DO NOT run the battery out of your good car totally flat in the faulty car or you will have x2 flat traction batteries with no means of charging them
     
    #2 ozmatt, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  3. 48mpg

    48mpg Member

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    they screwed something up at the shop but will never admit it..
    auction cars are normally junk the dealers dont want to screw with
    the batteries should be over 7 volts each
    I would dump it ASAP and cut your loses
    I have 2 running & driving Prii for sale and cant get rid of them, cheap gas prices have killed their value
     
  4. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    yea! auction cars can be a breeze or they can be a headache, its a gamble really sometimes you win sometimes you lose!

    I wouldn't dump an otherwise good Prius over a trans, bugga that! Prius transaxle is cheap & cutting loses is no fun :)

    Either way I would be talking to that mechanic if the car drove into their shop and was charging before they done the bearing, obviously not the traction battery (as they suggested) you have now eliminated that by trying another (known good) battery! so your back pointing the finger at the transmission which (before mechanic) was working fine just a bit noisy

    If a reputable business I think they should honor the repair and fix the car or at least install a second hand trans for you even if you have to shell out for one from the junkyard
     
  5. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Not sure what your overall plans are, but if you want to work on these regularly you'll need to buy some diagnostic tools.
    At the very least a scanner to read codes.
    Since you are buying these at auction, you may want to get good at replacing the transaxle ourself. You are likely to come across transaxle problems in other purchases, and it will save you money compared to sending it to a shop for service.
    Alternative you may want to find a reputable independent hybrid mechanic in your area.
    Feel free to call me if you need some advice in the meantime.
     
  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I suspect you have both a problem with the transaxle and the hv battery.
     
  7. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    I suspect that car is junque. Lol
     
  8. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Our products are used all the time to charge HV batteries that are drained out from non-use/excessive discharge. After sitting in a body shop/mechanic/storage yard for long periods, it is very common for the battery to drain to the point that is will not start the car. This will quickly and easily charge the battery back to full so you can recover the pack and start the car:
    Prolong™ Battery Charger - Hybrid Automotive
     
  9. davez51

    davez51 New Member

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    I don't think the car is junk. It's got only 84,000 miles and it's in good shape. And a junkyard tranny is cheap. The HV battery is in my car now and it is working fine. I suspect the DTC that set in the auction car was due to the fact that is was severely discharged. I have a Snap On MODIS for diag, but I don't have any information about what to look at. ALLDATA has no diagnostic info at all. In fact, most of what I've learned about how the car works is from this site and what I already know from working on the POS Fiat 500e.
    I don't have a problem swapping transmissions, but I wouldn't mind confirming that the problem is with the transmission/motor assembly. Even with the datastream on my MODIS, I'm not really sure what I'm looking for. It does have a compression testing procedure to crank the engine on command, but I can't seem to get it to perform the function even
     
  10. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Call me and we can talk through a few things.
     
  11. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    If both batteries don't charge in the auction car, but they do charge in your good car, its very likely your MG1 has failed, techstream is needed to confirm but if the car has not logged a dtc you wont get any joy from that either! as you can not run the car to look at the live data!
     
  12. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Don't confuse the "Snap On MODIS" diagnostic tool not being able to read any DTC's (that may be present), for the car not logging any DTC's.

    I strongly suspect there are Hybrid battery DTC's that the "Snap On MODIS" tool cannot see.

    The first order of business for the OP is to obtain a suitable diagnostic tool that can read all Prius DTC's, otherwise he is just fumbling around in the dark.
     
  13. davez51

    davez51 New Member

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    The MODIS has full functionality with a 2007 Prius. I may not have all the datastream PIDs, but I can access the HV battery, HV ECU, PCM to view datastream, codes (history, pending, active) , actuator tests, etc. There are no codes. No MILs.
    Eric, I will call you when I get a break at work tomorrow. I'd love to diagnose this thing before I spend an entire weekend replacing the trans.
    I expect that it is something that the transmission guy did when he took it apart. But I know things happen to cars and I want to find out exactly what is wrong before I tell him that I'm not paying for replacing the bearing. I would love to send it back to him and have him figure it out, but after talking with him, I don't think that he has the ability. I'm surprised he took it apart in the first place.
     
  14. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    I found most mechanics in my area wont touch prius that's half the reason I joined this forum so I could learn myself, its great here.

    Not used MODIS myself it but I can say techstream has about 15 sub categories and one is transaxle, its pretty much superior when it comes to Prius

    good luck with it
     
  15. davez51

    davez51 New Member

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    thanks for the info oz. "transaxle" is probably where i'd find most of what I am looking for as far as data. i'm probably not going to go out and buy a techstream, but I think that there are other ways to get Toyota software. one of the instructional courses I was at last year, the instructor had the Toyota diag software platform on his Toughbook. I don't know if that is a newer platform or not, but I'd bet that it would apply to a 2007 Prius.
     
  16. Dion Kraft

    Dion Kraft Member

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    If not sure the Modis cannot detect some codes why not create a situation to see if it can detect that? Just unplug something which would render a code and see. In the meanwhile I want to see if my Solus Ultra can crank the engine over thru the functions menuu. I have had my two Pris for a couple of months so I am kinda sorta new but learning.(on the Pris only) This is a little different than the OB2 nomal BJust hooked up the Solus Ultra and looked in the functions menu and there is no item whch says to crank the engine. Did the Modis have that function listed but could not engage ??
     
  17. davez51

    davez51 New Member

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    The SOLUS doesn't do a lot of the actuator functions and system functions that the MODIS will. There is a procedure to go through to get it to crank. Either I'm doing it incorrectly or it doesn't function. I've had problems with Snap On software once or twice in the past where an actuator test was there, but it did not function.
    I know there are no powertrain DTCs. If there were, the module would report it to the PCM and the PCM would set a DTC indicating it has received an error code from another module.
    The ability to set codes and store them are obviously there. It had a battery code. But I think it's because it was so severely discharged.
    It is strange that the Prius logic would allow it to drive without charging the battery to the point that it is so discharged that it will barely move and not set a DTC related to the condition. That in itself would be good diagnostic info, but I don't have the experience or the information to know

    what that would indicate. Why does it keep cutting off the last part of my sentence?
     
  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I don't know, maybe the way you're holding your head?

    You can just click the edit button (bottom left) and finish the sentence, or to correct any mistakes/typos you spot after the fact.
     
  19. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. What warning lights are on? In particular, do you see a red icon in the upper left corner of the MFD? What about the master warning red triangle?
    2. If you see the red icon in the MFD, it is guaranteed that hybrid vehicle ECU DTC exist.
    3. Use Mini VCI to retrieve the DTC.
    4. If your car shows absolutely no warning lights yet fails to operate then it must have a mechanical issue.
     
  20. davez51

    davez51 New Member

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    Hey, sorry it took so long to get back to you guys about this. I know you're dying to know what the problem was. Ok, maybe just me.
    Anyway, Patrick, I do not recall if there were any MILs on. I don't think so. The MODIS will access the PCM, HVECU, and HV Battery for data, codes, etc. and no DTCs in those modules. However it was not a mechanical issue. Well, kind of, but not really.
    The original trans guy claimed to have repaired a bearing in the transmission. Upon further inspection, I believe he simply installed a junkyard transmission. There were no witness marks on the transmission indicating disassembly and more importantly, no new sealant. A junkyard transmission was installed and upon assembling the inverter, the wires were crossed. The retarded part is that the wires are marked and the dumbass couldn't even follow his own marks. We installed the wires correctly, drove the vehicle, and bliss ... a beautiful 2007 Prius, ready for resale.
    I still don't understand why it started the first time and never did start again. But it works and I did not have to R & R a Prius tranny. I'd rather fool around with deadly HV wires any day!