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P0A78 + P0A90 DC Drive Issues

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by dlenox, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    Searched through all the posts and did not find an exact match for my situation.
    2005 Gen2 with 216k miles

    Driving on highway and asccelerated to pass a vehicle, sudden slow down and all warning/error lights went on. Pulled to side of road and used Autel 539 to get codes P0A78 + P0A90. Scan code reader does NOT display the INF codes, so I can not get them.

    Turned off vehicle and restarted. Put into drive and it appeared that I could move forward (and reverse) and was apparently running strictly on the ICE - no power coming from the DC motor for assist. HV battery would charge as driving down road.

    It was slow moving, but as long as I was accelerating (very slugglish!) was able to move forward. If I took foot off gas pedal then ICE stopped running and would not restart when pressing on gas pedal.

    Was able to do this a couple of times to move about 15mi so that I could get cell service to call AAA for tow.

    The main thing that I want to put out there is that the ICE started and was able to move the vehicle WITHOUT any assistance coming from the DC motor! Previously I thought that this was NOT possible? I could drive short distances. From dead stop there must have been high gearing as the engine shook a bit, but it did work on the ICE only!

    From what I researched the MG1 is working as I can move in reverse - unless the ICE alone is able to perform this.

    Unsure if the main issue is the Inverter or the MG2.

    Any thoughts?
     
    #1 dlenox, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Drive Motor A Performance.

    It may just be a blown Inverter or you lost the Inverter coolant pump. Open the hood and while the car is in READY open the Inverter coolant reservoir and with a flashlight peer down into the coolant tank. Should see pretty violent agitation for circulation. No agitation the pump is blown. It takes out a fuse too if it shorts out.
     
  3. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    thanks, gonna start pulling off the inverter cover this weekend, will check for turbulence in the reservoir as well.
    never thought of checking for blown fuse - good info!
     
  4. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Don't do that. There's not much to see or do under there. Just alot of connections. And exposure to hi voltage if hi voltage safety is not observed. You have to disable the hybrid battery by pulling the orange interlock. Just check the pump for good flow.

    Those codes you listed are rarely are thrown by themselves. I think your not seeing all the codes on board. I would purchase a mini vci that has Techstream and harvest all the codes which will point you to the real issue. Upon reflection most likely the trans.

    You can do one test that may be revealing.
    On top of the 12 volt battery is 2 wires into the positive assy on top of the pos post. One thick one smaller. Those wires are removable by unclicking there white plastic clips connector by squeezing the tab and pulling them out. Disconnect both of them and then reinstall them. That will reset the car and clear all codes. See how it drives after that and how long before the codes return.
     
  5. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    already own Autel 539 scan code reader. with about $100 invested in it, not sure I want to spend more $$ unless it can absolutely give me the INF codes that the Autel apparently can not.

    gotta start somewhere and doing general inverter inspection seems like the logical place to begin here.
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Mini VCI costs ~$25. It will give you the same diagnostic power that a Toyota dealer tech has. So you need to decide whether that is useful to you or not.

    The inverter or the transaxle most likely has failed. The three character info codes will potentially help to determine which is the failed component. It is possible that a wiring harness problem may be the root cause, and you can use the factory repair manual info at techinfo.toyota.com to obtain the troubleshooting tree.

    If you prefer to blindly replace the inverter first, then the transaxle if the inverter is not the failed part, that is up to you.
     
    #6 Patrick Wong, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  7. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    So are you saying that it will give me the INF codes that I don't seem to get from Autel?
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes
     
  9. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    thank you, if it will give INF codes it is well worth the extra money.
    gonna have a talk with Autel and see what is up with their device.
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    That device is generic and intended to work with many manufacturers' automobiles. The three-digit info codes are unique to Toyota so it is not reasonable to expect a generic device to retrieve those.
     
  11. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    just talked with Autel technical support and they said that the AL539 is a "basic" scan code reader and can not report the INF codes.

    ordered the Mini VCI and will have it in a couple days.

    Imagine a $25 tool having more capabilites than a $100 one - my advice is that only if you are interested in the "basic" scan code information - don't waste your time/money on an Autel...

    live and learn.
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    This is not exactly true - the Mini VCI is useless until it is connected to a 32 bit, Windows XP or Windows 7 laptop which when new cost much more than $100.
     
  13. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    patrick,

    thanks again on the Mini VCI, got it and checked out the INF codes, I got a 287 on DC1 and 279 on DC4.

    will need to research what these codes mean
     
    #13 dlenox, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    It is now time for you to purchase access to the factory repair manual so that you can perform the troubleshooting tree on P0A78, info 279 and 287.

    techinfo.toyota.com

    Basically, the manual suggests you check the connections to the hybrid vehicle ECU and the inverter. If the connections are good, then the troubleshooting tree helps you to decide whether the problem is the HV ECU, transaxle or inverter based upon the EXCLUSIVE INFO 4 measurement.
     
  15. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    what exactly do you mean by "EXCLUSIVE INFO 4 measurement"?
     
  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    That is a measurement available via Mini VCI.
     
  17. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    I don't remember anyone having connection problems in that circuit with the exception of a salvage car that saw previous trauma from an accident. Is it a salvage car? Is it new to you?

    I suppose major corrosion could be an issue also. Car has lots of miles. is it really corroded bad down under?

    Whatever you do make sure you pull the orange safety interlock on the Hybrid Battery. Don't open the cover on the Inverter without doing that as you could get blasted.

    There's another option to the mini vci and its simpler to get going:

    New Vxdiag VCX Nano for Toyota Tis Techstream Diagnostic Tool V10 10 018 | eBay

    I have both. The VXDIAG is plug and play. Both require XP.

    Given the miles I think you will find the trans is blown. Inverter failures are pretty rare unless the Inverter was seriously overheated somewhere in its life from an earlier pump failure. Did that happen?
    If Inverter fail they usually go out completely making the car unable to go Ready.

    if it was me I would pull the trans fluid and see how it looks. Any metal in it and does it smell burnt and before you dump it is it at the full line.
    Full line being open the fill plug and with the car fairly level put your finger in the hole and can you feel the fluid. if so its full. No fluid its low. Its easy and pretty fast and cheap.

    Go to techinfo.toyota.com and make sure your printer has good ink and paper and buy the one day subscription.
    Search code tree for you codes
    trans fluid change
    inverter R & R
    power interconnect from trans to inverter R & R
    print away

    There's also alot of info on the site lusciousgarage.com
    They are the Premier Prius repair center.
     
  18. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    No I am the original owner of the vehicle. Will pull plug and check state of trans fluid as suggested.

    I have seen that the resistance of MG2 windings are all at .019 ohms

    Using the Techstream software I ran a Health Check, unfortunately now the original trouble codes have been cleared and I apparently no longer get the codes to display. Plus the ICE no longer starts up and HV battery is down to 30% charge.

    Printed out problem tracing for the INF codes that I was previously able to access, and have been following the diagnostic tree, but got stuck. I have displayed the Detail Info of the Hybrid tab and double clicked on the INF codes and no further info is being displayed. Can not seem to be able to access the "Exclusive Info 4" information, any suggestions?

    f I am not correct please let me know how to access the "Exclusive Info" data.

    I'm using v 10.10.18 software, and from the TIS site I believe that the software used with the Mini VCI appears to be a "Lite" version. Perhaps there are differences from the Lite and Pro versions.
     
    #18 dlenox, May 2, 2016
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  19. dlenox

    dlenox Junior Member

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    ok after a bunch of digging around the internet I've finally found out that the "Exclusive Info" values are actually referred to as the Information 1-5 lines that get dispayed from the Detail Info tab which gets displayed after a DTC is referenced.

    I'm a software engineer of over 37yrs and find that it gets confusing real fast when technical terms are mixed around.

    The diagnostic trees reference the term "Exclusive Info" however the software uses "Information". users can suffer and get confused very easily when this occurs. Perhaps there is some difference between the professional system and Mini VCI products, but from my wanderings they are the same software.
     
    #19 dlenox, May 2, 2016
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  20. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Drive motor performance is measured by pulse gen & freq gen off there respective sensors. PG & FG. At speed (rev) calculated it expects a certain amount of power and not seeing it. You may have a bad fg circuit which we have seen before. There's is a plug on the front bumper side of the trans that is a known rot/corrosion issue. I believe that is the trans fg sensor output. There's a you tube about it also if memory serves. Take that plug off and inspect is closely for corrosion.