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The $550 Gen II

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Ultanium, May 1, 2016.

  1. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    Yep, picked up a black 2004 today, that would not start, for $550. Paid the seller, reset the codes, and she fired up (very roughly) for about 30 seconds, and then dies. 260k, TIS shows codes P3190 and P3140. MFD showed the HV battery is nearly dead, TIS shows all banks at 14.45v, and all at the same resistance. I checked the interconnect, it is now locked down in place, but I did notice the PO had left the 12v battery connected with no bolts, just pressed the terminals down. Any suggestions to bring this black beauty back to life? Plugs maybe??

    Tj
     
    #1 Ultanium, May 1, 2016
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
  2. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    Are you saying all the blocks are at 7.45V? BLOCKS?

    7.45V * 14 = 104.3V total?

    If that's the case, then you need to get a grid charger on the pack or replace it.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    2004 with original hybrid battery? just replace it with the new rebuilt toyota battery. cheap and easy.
     
  4. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    Sorry, typo. 14.45 each
     
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  5. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    Whew... well, that's good and bad. 14.45 is dead, but not door-nail dead. The pack is at 0% state of charge. The good news is that if you grid charge it, I would expect a significant recovery.
     
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  6. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    So do ya'll think that the depleted battery would cause it to run roughly, and then die?
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I don't think the engine actually started. More likely, MG1 was just spinning the engine. You can determine whether the engine started by depressing the accelerator pedal. If the engine does not speed up, then it has not started.

    My first suggestion would be to make sure the 12V battery is fully charged, then make sure the cable connectors are correct.

    My second suggestion is to measure engine compression using Mini VCI and a compression gauge. This will determine whether the engine has a serious mechanical problem or not.

    My third suggestion would be to clean the throttle body interior and throttle plate, using throttle body cleaner sprayed upon a clean cloth. Use the cloth to scrub the throttle body interior and throttle plate. Remove and clean the mass air flow sensor using MAF cleaner spray. Make sure there are no leaks in the air intake hoses which feed air to the throttle body and intake manifold. Make sure the PCV hoses are sound and that nothing is causing an air leak (for example, a missing engine oil cap or dipstick.)

    My fourth suggestion would be to see whether the spark igniters are producing high voltage. You can check this by removing one igniter and plug at a time, and attach a wire to ground the spark plug shell. Have someone try to start the car while you look at the plug to see whether it is sparking or not.

    My fifth suggestion would be to see whether the fuel injectors are delivering fuel. After testing the spark igniters, you should have an extremely pungent fuel odor coming up from the spark plug holes. If this is not happening then you have a problem with the fuel pump or there is no fuel in the tank. Measure fuel line pressure which should be at least 43 psi.

    After you have performed the steps above, if the engine still does not start then it is time to seek professional assistance.
     
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  8. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    I believe you are right, Patrick. I put in a fresh 12v battery today, car does nothing but spin over, with the same errors codes as before. Tried swapping the MAF out with a new one, no change. Cleaned the throttle body, no change. Pulled the injectors, cleaned and reinstalled them, no change. I'm starting to think a crank position sensor, or maybe something more serious. I still told you guys the wrong voltage on the HV pack, they are all at 13.45, according to TIS. On the spark test, how can you force MG1 to spin it over? I'm currently having to clear the codes, power off, unplug the MVCI, hold my foot on the brake and long-press the start button. Then the car tries to start, 15 seconds later, the codes return, including a failed to start code. I'll hit it again tomorrow, and see if I'm getting spark, maybe just a squirt of fuel or starting fluid, to see if she sputters. If it does, then we can narrow it down to a fuel problem.

    Tj
     
    #8 Ultanium, May 2, 2016
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
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  9. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    Please stop f**king trying to start the car. What part of "0% state of charge" did you not understand? Your traction battery is now BELOW 0% SoC.

    Charge your f**king hybrid battery, or replace it.

    :D
     
  10. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    Just saw the email notification. Thought I'd come back in case there was any question as the to recommended course of action.

    I feel I should clarify with a qualifier. If you have any desire to try and salvage your pack, please f*cking stop trying to start the car and give it a little charge! If you want to keep spiking a dead battery with a starting load repeatedly further risking permanent damage, keep going. Totally.

    :D <--harsh response softened by cute sh*t eating grin... :)
     
  11. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    Dude, you need to lighten up. I have 4 Prius here, and one ready to swap in pack. I know the HV battery is depleted, I can read the TIS, that is why I posted the voltage. Try decaf, it taste just like the real thing...
     
  12. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    Did you miss the smiley? :D

    Based on the condition of the battery, I don't think the car will start even if everything is perfect. A full light-off ICE start shows a 50A spike to me on Techstream (with the discharge test going), so even with all the discharge stuff turned off, that's still about 34A current spike to fire the ICE. You put that kind of load on a depleted pack, and you'll likely ruin it. I think the car knows that and refuses to start for that reason.

    Steve

    :D

    EDIT: Coffee is a necessary evil - a caffeine delivery system. Decaf is just so wrong. Coffee is gross, but it's what keep my heart beating...

    Start watching at 2:45. That's me, but way fatter...

     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    decaf? on priuschat?:cool:
     
  14. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    I had a bookmark to a DIY grid charger, using iwill power supplies, but cannot find it now. I think it was Hybrid Automotive, their first charger? It was under a hundred bucks to build, gonna need to put this pack on for a few days. Headed out to put the backup pack in today, and see if she'll start.

    Tj
     
  15. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Use 12v power supply and charge each module up one at a time for free. I'm guessing you have a 12v power supply lying around, right?

    Or just build a high voltage charger yourself with no safeties using LED power supplies for under $10.
    Positive to negative, negative to positive until you build up enough voltage for the whole pack.

    But if you have 4 prius, maybe it is is well worth having a proper tools and buying a real high voltage charger.
    You got the car for $500 maybe you could oil the hinges on your wallet and try opening it up.
    Plus you'd be supporting great folks on here who financially support PriusChat.

    Not everything in life is free. Nor should it be.
     
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  16. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    What is this, sandblast Tommy day? I didn't join this forum, or start this thread, to get a sermon, be cursed at, nor chastised for not having another $400 to spend right now on a charger. I will do what I can, when I can, to support those that keep this forum alive. If this, in any way, bothers you, I will provide my mailing address, and we can use your credit card to buy me a charger.
     
  17. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Glad you're up for some good natured ribbing.
    Be happy to rent you a charger, but probably not buy you one yet.
    We hardly know each other. Maybe after a nice dinner? :)

    I gave you several options, including a free option.
    No need to spend money if you don't want to or don't have it.

    If you don't have the money that's totally understandable.
    Just providing options.

    Another free option would be to parallel one of your good packs with this lower voltage one. Charge the working one up in the car, until it is all green bars. Take it out. Then parallel it with the low voltage one.

    Or you could just parallel the low voltage one in the trunk of one of you running Prius until it gets above the minimum voltage needed.

    Use appropriate safety precautions while doing these things. It is high voltage.
     
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  18. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Oil the hinges on your wallet lol

    SM-N900P ?
     
  19. Kevin_Denver

    Kevin_Denver Active Member

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  20. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    Thanks, man. I have pretty well eliminated those, but it never hurts to double check everything.