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Why the BMW i3-REx

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by bwilson4web, May 15, 2016.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Weight is a factor, but extra weight may not come into play until the commercial truck range.
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what does a suburban weigh? escapade? infinity q7? toyota land yacht? expedition? f350?
     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Rav4 hybrid 3950lbs.
    Suburban weighs 5800lbs. GM is pretty good at cutting the weight off their trucks.
    Sequia is 6000lbs.
    F350 6000 to 7000lbs. As a class 3 truck, the gross vehicle weight can be up to 14,000lbs. This is still a light duty truck. Medium duty truck classes can be up to 26k lbs GVWR. Heavy duty trucks require a CDL, and the class 7 is up to 33k lbs. Class 8, which covers tractor trailers, is anything heavier than the class 7.
    Truck classification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i can't say yes or no, but a 50% increase seems like a lot. and then there's payload and towing.
     
  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    You have it REAL cheap compared to those of us in PG&E-land.

    From my math, based upon E-1 at http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf and area X, code B, where I'm at (10.1 kWh/day = baseline and assuming 30 days/billing month), the above 1927 kWh would cost approx. $656 in my area, or an average of 34 cents/kWh.

    However, if one were to look at the marginal cost of adding a BEV or PHEV that's charged at home, the marginal cost per kWh is most likely higher than 34 cents/kWh.
     
  6. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Makes solar at about 9-14cents/kWh (assuming 25 year life of panels) seem like a no-brainier. IF you can afford the up-front costs.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Does it make sense to do a $/mile cost of electricity vs Prius?

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A ton is a lot, but not when the road was made for 18 ton+ tractor trailers.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, but all vehicles wear out the roads. if it's not weight, what is it?
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Weight is a factor on road wear, but its impact is like that of air resistance on fuel efficiency. At low speeds, say 25 to 30 mph, there is drag from air resistance, but it is small enough that it has a tiny impact compared to other factors. Start speeding up, and the force of air resistance increases. The amount of that force actually increases faster than the speed. Going twice as fast has the air drag increase 4 times.

    The relationship between vehicle weight and road wear is much the same. The heavier the vehicle, the even greater the wear.
    " According to a GAO study, Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford, road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to 9600 cars (p.23 of study, p.36 of PDF).

    The study assumed a fully loaded tractor-trailer at 80,000 pounds, and a typical passenger car at 4,000 pounds. That’s 20 times difference in weight, but the wear and tear caused by the truck is exponentially greater." - Vehicle Weight and Road Damage

    I know that might make it sound like a SUV will do substantially more damage to a road than a car, but we have to keep mind we are discussing roads designed to stand up to that 18 wheeler. Being able to hold those forces with a reasonable service life means the difference between the car and SUV is barely measurable, and worth taking into effect. This article has quotes from multiple sources to that effect,
    Chicago’s SUV Tax and Road Damage: Do the Numbers Add Up? |
    Chicago magazine
    | The 312 September 2011

    And remember, the F350 mentioned earlier is classified as a light duty truck.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    pretty good article. what i get out of it, is that there should be a floating rate of tax based on vehicle weight. this is mostly accomplished by the gas tax. but large trucks will nevr get taxed proportionately, and it would make more sense to leave battery vehicles out of the picture until they have reached a predetermined threshold the government is trying to accomplish.
     
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  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My understanding is the EV/Hybrid schemes turned out to lose more money than they took in.

    The simple solution is increase all tag/registration rates. But again legislators having to vote on it.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If we made the commercial trucks pay, we would all just be paying through higher prices.

    I'm just peeved at Pa registrations because my Ranger paid the the truck rate, but is lighter, fully loaded, than those full size SUVs empty, and they pay the car rate.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I have come up with a new model to compare BMW i3-REx performance to other cars and vehicle. But it is a little tricky because it is driven by:
    1. local gas price
    2. local electrical rate
    3. EVSE reported charging sessions
    4. BMW i3-REx reports for mi/kWh.
    A) Record the gas cost per gallon and electrical rate:

    local energy $/unit
    1 reg gas $1.73
    2 kWh $0.10

    According to GasBuddy, regular unleaded is $1.91/gallon. The maximum utility rate is $0.10/kWh.

    B) Record BMW i3-REx driving and charging usage:

    Use the tripmeter for a long period to get:
    metric value
    1 mi/kWh 4.3
    2 miles 314
    3 speed 28.0 mph

    For now, we are not using the tripmeter miles and speed. They will be useful in the future.

    Download the JuiceBox EVSE metrics and calculate the cost and miles:
    Plug-In Energy (kWh) Charging Time Cost miles
    1 Yesterday 11:44 PM 4.861 01:15 $0.49 20.9
    2 Yesterday 5:29 PM 7.655 01:48 $0.77 32.9
    3 Yesterday 4:44 PM 2.666 00:23 $0.27 11.5
    4 Sunday 11:43 PM 13.885 02:49 $1.39 59.7
    5 Sunday 3:51 PM 5.084 01:11 $0.51 21.9
    6 Saturday 6:05 PM 5.083 01:30 $0.51 21.9
    7 Saturday 9:12 AM 3.468 01:02 $0.35 14.9
    8 Friday 4:04 PM 5.08 01:19 $0.51 21.8
    9 Thursday 9:29 PM 4.764 01:20 $0.48 20.5
    10 Thursday 2:51 PM 9.245 02:00 $0.92 39.8
    11 Wednesday 8:59 PM 5.358 01:23 $0.54 23.0
    12 Wednesday 2:37 PM 3.84 01:03 $0.38 16.5
    13 Wednesday 12:56 AM 5.891 01:39 $0.59 25.3

    This is the JuiceBox EVSE reported power consumed at home charging the car. It does not include 'free' remote chargers but it also includes 'overhead' of battery cooling/heating and cabin cooling/heating.

    C) Calculate your electrical expense and miles from the EVSE:

    Column 1 Column 2
    0 total cost $7.69
    1 total miles 330.6

    So this is a calculated miles the car would have driven based upon the measured miles per kWh and the owner's "out of pocket" expense.

    D) Calculate the MPG equivalent:

    MPG = calculated_miles / (total_electrical_cost / $_per_gallon)
    Equivalent to EV miles
    1 MPG 74.4


    UTILITY

    What this allows us to do is compare the gas/diesel price to generate an effective MPG for the BMW i3-REx running on electricity:
    • $1.73/gal -> 74.4 MPG Regular unleaded
    • $2.03/gal -> 87.3 MPG Diesel
    • $2.15/gal -> 92.5 MPG Premium unleaded
    True Miles

    Another approach is to use the tripmeter mileage reading that spans a set of charging sessions. The advantage is this includes the 'free' charger miles. But it does require syncing the tripmeter span with the charger sessions. For a month-by-month record, a perfectly fine approach.

    CONCLUSIONS

    At 74.4 MPG, a Gen-4 Prius could be competitive with running a BMW i3-REx in electric mode. But when 'free' chargers are included, the Gen-4 loses out.

    At 87.3 MPG, there are no known diesels that compete. My last analysis of user report Jetta TDI MPG showed them to be in the mid-40s, close to a factor of two.

    At 92.5 MPG, here we are comparing the BMW i3-REx in EV versus gasoline mode. But the highest measured REx gas mode, 45 MPG, is off by a factor of two compared to the electrical rate.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #174 bwilson4web, Jul 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: The True Cost of Powering an Electric Car

    Because of the variety of utility rates in the U.S., a 2013 Nissan Leaf that's a bargain to drive at average electricity rates in Washington (approximately $25 for 1,000 miles) is pricey in Hawaii, where those 1,000 miles would cost about $107. A conventional car would have to be getting 140 mpg to make that trip for the same money in Washington, while in Hawaii, a 38.5-mpg gasoline vehicle would do the trick.

    This is the same kind of analysis, the model, I'm working on.

    BTW, I used the roll-down coefficients to look again at the BMW i3-REx:
    [​IMG]
    The REx power equals the drag power at ~70 mph. To go faster, the car has to draw on traction battery power. Then it reaches the limit at ~93 mph.

    Reducing aerodynamic drag with a tapered, after-body, should move the i3 drag power to the right. Even a 5 mph improvement would make a significant improvement in highway mileage but also benefits in urban driving.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i wish the press would focus less on cost, and more on the myriad of more important benefits of driving ev.
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In Huntsville there are two "Blink" EV charging stations 3 miles from home. The one with the working screen charges something like $0.02 per 2 minutes and I used it to test my Blink card a couple of weeks ago. The other one has a dead screen ... and works ... and does not (because of the broken screen) ask for a card.

    So I loaded up my wife's dogs to take them for a walk. I connected to the 'dead' charger and walked them about ~0.3 mile (~0.5 km) to a well lit, non-smoking, local bar that has sushi and is open to 1:00 AM. I tied the dogs to a handicap reserved sign out front and went in to enjoy the delights. Did you know small dogs are a chick magnet?

    So I ordered a club sandwich for my wife and the 'dog pack' power walked back towards the car where I of course was now perfectly safe to drive back to the bar for the sandwich . . . one large enough that everyone got some.

    Near as I can tell, my future, daily commutes will cost about 1.6 kW assuming I top off at this 'broken' station on the way home. Or I could just consider 98% SOC not just good enough but perfect! (Thank you Dick Hicks.)

    Bob Wilson

    ps. Many years ago I worked at General Electric and Dick Hicks was a classic GE program manager. We were in the 'war room' giving our status and Hank, the software manager was reporting progress proportional to the schedule until about a week or so before his delivery was due. Then it was 'we had a set back and the software is only 89% done.' The next week, '92%', and the next, '94%'. The fourth week he reported '96%' and Dick Hick announced in voice that needed no amplification:

    "Ninety Six Percent is not good enough! It's ... PERFECT! Ship it!"

    Actually once we got the software in the hands of the integration and test team supported by operations we were finally able to get a working version.
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Now we have some electrical use metrics:

    Plug-In Cumulative $ miles
    1 16/08/05 12:17 $20.06 327 (~$0.16 / 10 mile)
    2 16/08/04 21:51 $19.61
    3 16/08/04 14:42 $19.54
    4 16/08/03 23:53 $18.62
    5 16/08/03 14:50 $18.27
    6 16/08/03 12:21 $17.54
    7 16/08/01 23:32 $17.37
    8 16/08/01 15:57 $17.24
    9 16/08/01 01:54 $17.10
    10 16/07/31 17:43 $16.66
    11 16/07/30 18:20 $16.35
    12 16/07/30 18:06 $15.85
    13 16/07/29 15:27 $15.69
    14 16/07/29 01:31 $14.91 0
    15 16/07/28 16:01 $14.63
    16 16/07/27 23:03 $14.05
    17 16/07/27 22:38 $13.97
    18 16/07/27 14:59 $13.97
    19 16/07/26 14:52 $12.18
    20 16/07/25 23:44 $11.27
    21 16/07/25 17:29 $10.78
    22 16/07/25 16:44 $10.02
    23 16/07/24 23:43 $9.75
    24 16/07/24 15:51 $8.36
    25 16/07/23 18:05 $7.85
    26 16/07/23 09:12 $7.34
    27 16/07/22 16:04 $7.00
    28 16/07/21 21:29 $6.49
    29 16/07/21 14:51 $6.01
    30 16/07/20 20:59 $5.09
    31 16/07/20 16:20 $4.55
    32 16/07/20 14:37 $4.55
    33 16/07/20 00:56 $4.17
    34 16/07/19 15:44 $3.58
    35 16/07/19 03:08 $2.98
    36 16/07/18 15:34 $2.46
    37 16/07/17 20:17 $1.88
    38 16/07/17 20:16 $1.54
    39 16/07/17 20:15 $1.54
    40 16/07/17 19:23 $1.53
    41 16/07/17 09:58 $0.91

    For the next week, I intend to vampire "free" chargers. One week at $0.00/mile.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #178 bwilson4web, Aug 5, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
  19. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    A 2" receiver hitch installed on Monday:
    [​IMG]
    Unfortunately it does not come with trailer light adapter which according to the vendor, I'll have to do myself.

    [​IMG]
    For my our wheelchair carrier, this will do. It is a folding "transport" chair, not those huge, heavy powered units. I'm still assembling the carrier but need some parts to pickup on Wednesday. Once installed, I'll put the wheelchair on and take some metrics.

    Bob Wilson
     
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