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Japanese Media Test Drive Articles

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Tideland Prius, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    トヨタの本気!新型「プリウスPHV」を早くも試乗でチェック!これがプリウスの本流だ! 【オートックワン】

    **Very rough translation using Google Translate, some interpretation and cleaning up the grammar:

    Toyota is serious! Check out the early test drive of the Prius PHV! This will be the mainstream Prius!

    Before taking the cars out for the test drives, let's take a look at the materials that were handed out.

    First item is the design. It's good. The current Prius, as you know, has had a rather difficult reception of its design. While it's not known what the person was thinking from the start, the new Prius PHV's "bracket" [front end] design certainly looks good.

    I don't have to introduce you to the photo because it has been around [the internet], I think [the Prius PHV] is 20,000x better looking than the regular Prius. Overall length is a bit longer and the rear glass incorporates a dual curved surface.

    If the [regular] Prius looked this good, would it not suffer a decrease in sales?

    It's time to test drive the new Prius PHV. Start off in D and it's an electric car as long as you drive normally.

    The new Prius PHV uses both motors!

    The new model is fun when running in EV mode, using two motors under moderate acceleration.

    Normal acceleration will use the first motor (72hp) while a 31hp motor will also join in (for a total of 103hp [motor output])

    The powerful acceleration response may be because of that [second] motor!

    By using a 1-motor system on the Nissan LEAF (109hp), it feels great because the performance is akin to full acceleration.

    By the way, the engine is started when the accelerator is fully depressed [Editor: Maybe it's configured differently in Japan?]. Engine and motor output is 122 system horsepower.

    Real cruising distance in EV mode is maybe 45-50km?

    Heavier than the Prius Liftback but equivalent hybrid MPG!

    The engine will automatically start at around 40% battery level [shown on the MID]. Now we enter Hybrid Mode. Here, the performance is slightly reduced compared to the 150kg-lighter Prius Liftback. It seems that as much as half of the performance reduction can be attributed to the reduced motor output.

    The target value of 37km/L in Hybrid Mode is the same as the Prius Liftback, which is 150kg lighter. The large-capacity battery also allows full use of its capacity for regenerative braking. The fuel consumption is good even though I ran the Prius in C-S mode.

    What was unexpected was the ride and handling.

    This is the volume/mainstream Prius?

    Running around at Sodegaura Circuit, it seems the dampers have increased rebound force compared to the Prius Liftback, resulting in more stable/calm/composed behaviour in the corners. It handles quite different from the Prius with sudden changes in the steering direction.

    Or maybe it's because of the heavy battery that's position low and in the rear of the vehicle, resulting in a lower centre of gravity and better front:rear weight distribution. The car, equipped with 17" wheels, rides unbelievably comfortable for an eco car.

    [Not sure about this paragraph. He says something about good ride comfort and handling again and something about convincing himself of something]

    As I'm behind the wheel, I wonder "Will this not be the mainstream Prius?". The marketability of the Prius is new technology and surprises. I didn't feel that newness when driving the regular Prius [Liftback].

    But in the new Prius PHV, there's a lot of new/fresh experiences, especially the pleasant futuristic feeling when driving in EV Mode.

    The world's first capability of driving ~1,060km/year on solar power alone!"

    The solar panel equipment (which is not a cheap option) mounted on the roof can run 6.1km per day in "ideal conditions". The expected average daily range is 2.9km [from the electricity generated from the solar roof].

    365 days a year. That means one can run almost 1,060km solely on solar-generated electricity.

    The release date is a bit worrisome as it appears to be pushed back to the next year [2017] because of issues of manufacturing the carbon fibre rear hatch door. If this [car] has an attractive price, it may result in strong sales for Toyota.

    ■ Engine

    Type: in-line four-cylinder DOHC

    Total volume (cc): 1,797

    Maximum output (kW [PS] / rpm): 72 (98) / 5,200

    Maximum torque (N · m [kgf · m] / rpm): 142 (14.5) / 3,600

    ■ Motor

    Maximum output (kW [PS]): 1NM: 53 (72) / 1SM: 23 (31)

    Maximum torque (N · m [kgf · m]): 1NM: 163 (16.6) / 1SM: 40 (4.1)

    System maximum output (kW [PS]): 90 (122)

    ■ Traction Battery

    Type: Lithium-ion battery

    Cell capacity (Ah): 25

    The number of cells: 95

    The total amount of power (kWh): 8.8
     
    #1 Tideland Prius, Aug 30, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  2. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    So if I had the solar roof (which isn't available), and if I work 1.1 miles away (which I do), I would never need to plug it in or fill with gas but maybe once per year. At least for the daily to work and back driving I do. Interesting.
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    In theory, yes. (The Japanese example they use in the media articles is those who take the train to work but use the car on the weekends. While the car is parked on the weekdays, it can charge up enough for you to run errands on the weekend)
     
  4. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Interesting that even the Japanese find regular Prius a bit awkwardly designed and find Prime a lot better. I also hope Prime will become more mainstream and actual true "NEW Prius". If not now, then when next generation comes out.
     
  5. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

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    Do you mean that for more days in a row when not using the car you can multiply the 6.1 km by the number of days? I thought the 6.1 km is the maximum due to the capacity of the extra battery. Unless you can charge the traction battery daily from the extra battery, but I did not see that option yet.
     
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yep. They're saying that a maximum you can achieve is 6.1km/day (sun overhead, no trees or other shadows, longest day of the year maybe...)

    Averaged (not sure over what time frame, it could be over the four seasons), they're expecting 2.9km. It's the 2.9km figure that they use to quote "1,060km/year on solar power".

    So yes, if you have a half-filled battery, just leave it outside for 5 days and it'll nearly top it up.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    funny, i like the lift back looks much better. love the tail lights. prime rear end looks bland, and front horrific. just goes to show.
     
  8. Mister MMT

    Mister MMT Active Member

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    @bisco. Please promise me you'll be among the first testers. Your opinion will interest me greatly!

    Jan
     
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  9. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Do you dislike the Prime's lower front look, upper front, or all? Personally, I like the upper half of the styling, F & R, but the lower half is horrid.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    let me look again, is there a good place to find the lift back and prime in side to side photos? i definitely don't like the gills.
    okay, i see a nice comparison right in the o/p. i really like the lift back tail lights, the prime are okay but not as exciting.
    in the front, i prefer the lift back headlights, front of the hood (don't like the way they cut the hood off on the prime with the wrap around seem) and the gills. i guess that's the whole thing?
    but i realize it's personal taste, and they look different in person than pictures.

    all that said, i will still buy a prime if they move the battery.

    if they'll let me, i promise.(y)

    just wondering, does the japanese press ever criticize their own, or is that shameful?
     
    #10 bisco, Aug 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2016
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  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    トヨタ・プリウスPHV【開発者インタビュー】 (35036) - webCG

    Very roughly translated and paraphrased where needed to ensure flow of reading. I hope I don't misquote him. I apologise in advance for any errors. If you have a better understanding on Japanese, edits are welcomed!

    The one and only PHV

    Toyota Product Planning Headquarters
    Chief Engineer: Mr. Koji Toyoshima

    Toyota's plug-in hybrid vehicle, "Prius PHV", is a full model change. What do I feel about the second generation eco-car? Before its launch, I ask to speak to the chief engineer.

    I knew the disadvantages of the first generation

    I asked to speak to Koji Toyoshima in November 2015. We were putting to the paces of Toyota's next generation "Toyota New Global Architecture" which will first launch in the 4th generation Prius (prototype). [He] was talking about the model that can achieve tremendous fuel efficiency and sporty driving performance.

    You have to say that the 3rd to 4th generation Prius is a change, the Prius PHV is an evolution. Fuel cell vehicles are part of the 3 pillars of the future environment. The next [immediate] generation is considered to be PHV. The adoption of Mirai isn't widespread because of the barrier of infrastructure. PHV is good now because of [existing] infrastructure. Hybrids now has changed to become a choice as an ordinary car. The Prius is seen as an example of how it can try to go in both directions and with the second generation PHV, the Prius is complete.

    At the launch of 4th generation Prius, it was said that the 3rd generation was clearly not that good. This time...

    We can say it was clearly useless in terms of being primarily a PHV (laughs). The first is that the difference between the Prius Hybrid [and the PHV] was not apparent. (Editor I'm not sure about this sentence but I think KT is saying that the Japanese market specifically didn't know about the PHV package's benefits or didn't see the benefits of the PHV). The exterior changes didn't make apparent the fact that the car was an advanced [technology] vehicle.

    The second is the EV cruising distance of 24.6km. Although it is fun to run on electricity, you will get kicked out of EV when you stomp down. When winter comes around, it's difficult to get into EV mode. You need the engine for heating and the consumer wants to run in EV mode even in the winter.

    Increasing the differentiation of the exterior and interior [between Prius and PHV] and the battery capacity was the key.

    There is one other. The consumer is a little less interested when they go to the dealer and find out they have to charge at home and at work. This is the description I get from the salesperson and it was difficult to sell [the car] and it took a long time [to sell]. We're sorry about that.

    The double bubble window has a considerable impact on the appearance [of the car]

    Designer Kodama wanted to do it regardless (laughs). The reason is that for the front design, you will see the differences (to your eye). The Prius PHV has a face that's closer to future vehicles [like the Mirai] than Prius hybrid because it was developed in parallel, at the same time [as the Mirai]. For the rear, it's more difficult to differentiate between the two vehicles (Prius and PHV) so I went with his idea of a double bubble window.

    Because the curvature is larger, was it technically difficult for production?

    Actually, I wanted more curvature but there was a limit. Creating it alongside the glass manufacturer's prototypes, it took more than two years to find the balance. Thinking about how the shape can be produced and that field of vision is not distorted. Modelling as well, there's an aerodynamic effect. It can dismissed if it's simply because the designer wanted it. Rather than "personal preference", it is important now that it can be shown that there's a purpose for it. Well, either because I know how to lead or motivate the selfish people. I know my job (laughs).

    The rear hatch is made of CFRP (carbon fibre reinforced plastic). Can it not be used in other parts?

    CRFP is made internally at the Motomachi plant in Toyota City. It was previously the workshop for the Lexus LFA, almost a la carte, because of the manual labour. (He goes on to say something about innovation about production technology that goes into mass production but I can’t properly translate that). This time, we tried to do the rear hatch. By using CFRP, we removed the hatch trim. The CFRP is exposed. Since it is exposed and we see the criss-cross pattern, I even considered choosing the best shape of the grain (editor: the pattern?) from scratch.

    The interior has a vertical display that stands out

    There was a discussion on whether to use a vertical type or a horizontal type. There are two reasons for going with vertical. If you want to use the navigation system, a vertical screen will allow you to see further ahead on your route guidance. The other reason is that because the screen is touch-sensitive, it should be reachable by the driver. I actually could’ve equipped the 4th generation with this display but I impatiently waited until the PHV for differentiation.

    Even though it’s a different design, the ease of use doesn’t change.

    (Editor: I really don’t know what he’s saying… I don’t want to misquote Koji lol. It sounds like he’s saying a small set of people might prefer horizontal but I don’t know what he’s saying in the rest of the paragraph)

    Do you change the ride flavour between the Prius and Prius PHV?

    Both cars use the TNGA platform so body rigidity doesn’t change. [Prius PHV] is heavier because of the battery but I was thinking of using that weight to increase driving pleasure. The front/rear weight distribution will increase in the rear by 2% because of the battery. Correspondingly, the cornering characteristics become better and you can better feel the tires. When the body is heavy, it will move gently (Editor: Not really lumbering but body control is better. It doesn’t move side to side easily). (Editor: The last sentence uses an onomatopoeia that I don’t recognise).

    The PHV’s ride is closer to what the Mirai is than to the Prius.

    I’ve been using the weight to exude a sense of quality as well in the Mirai. A physics law. It needed a certain amount of weight to [get that slow/gentle movement]. There is a heavy impression in cornering, moving gently over the rough road surface. It’s heavy but you feel the lightness when you’re running straight at EV mode.

    Editor: The last page talks about parallels between developing the Prius PHV and the gymnasts at the Olympics. He talks about he think PHV should become mainstream. Since it runs on both electricity and gasoline, one has a choice. He also mentions how in the US, the $35,000-$40,000 price range has become the main battlefield for plug-ins and that it’ll be a real tough fight.
     
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  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    屋根にソーラーパネルを積んだ『プリウスPHV』は夢のあるクルマだ!|@DIME アットダイム

    This is an interesting tidbit.

    Takahiro Hirano is the person responsible for the development of the solar panel. The current solar panel that will be offered on the Prius Prime in Japan is maximum 6.1km/day and average 2.9km/day.

    I wonder if this means we *might* see the improved panel by the time they offer it in the US?
     
  13. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  15. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    They should have said MG2 is 72 HP.

    Huh? I'm not sure how to parse that. The LEAF uses a single motor.

    As you noted, the US version of the car supposedly doesn't start the engine merely from fully depressing the accelerator.

    Hmm, 40% seems unlikely to be accurate. It seems way too high. I think the previous Prius PHV started the engine at around 22%? If anything, a bigger battery might be taken down to a lower state of charge and certainly not 40, I would think.

    I'm not aware of the new PHEV having less powertrain output than the non-plugin gen 4. I think all of the performance reduction in hybrid mode is due to the added battery weight.
     
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  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Perhaps I mis-translated the LEAF part? Here's the Japanese paragraph

    I'll clean up the MG1 part. I think I wrote it incorrectly (he might've been saying the "first" motor and not MG1).

    There was a photo next to the paragraph that showed both C-D and hybrid portion of the battery. Perhaps they were referring to that battery pictogram in the car?
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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