Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by SlowTurd, Jun 18, 2012.
151mpg Mitsubishi Outlander announced | Autocar
The Volt/Ampera gets 196 mpg (US gallons) and emits 27 g/km of CO2, according
to the European NEDC test cycle where that 151 mpg number almost certainly comes from. The high number is largely a function of battery size and EV range.
NEDC also has a gasoline-only estimate. The Volt gets 47 mpg on that. It will be interesting to see what the Mitsubishi battery and gas-only numbers look like.
Really? Last I heard the Volt's CS mode was 36/37mpg. do you have a link? Becasue Edmunds isn't in agreement:
EPA Rates 2011 Chevrolet Volt at 60 MPG
The 100 mpg plug in hybrids are starting to hit the market. This is too cool. I'm sure in 2015 when it's upgrade my Prius III time I'll be getting one of them.
Amazing from 50 mpg to 100 mpg in three years.
Some of you are trying to mix the European numbers with the US numbers, that way lies madness.
If you stay with one agency, you can compare values, but mix and match never works.
The current Lift back Prius gets 72 MPG by European standards, it is only a 50 MPG car by US standards. Among the reasons for the difference is that the UK uses a different gallon than the US. The European test also spends twice the time at idle that the US test does, and the Prius excels at that.
Edmunds often get's things wrong. The NEDC european numbers are where the volt gets 196 mpg, it includes stretches that are electric in the distance. That is the appropriate number to compare to outlander's 151mpg. The numbers don't tell you much.
The 2013 volt on the us EPA tests gets 98mpge for 38 miles AER in Charge Depletion, and 35 city, 40 hwy, 37 mpg combined in charge sustain mode one the batteries get low. These should be better than the outlander on either the US or European tests. But ofcourse if you put the outlander on the European test, it is going to look good against any car on the american test.
This is a 4wd PHEV though and can do all electric 4wd. It likely gets much better mileage than ICE powered 4wd vehicles. It should also come out less expensive than the diesel phev volvo v60.
According to NEDC, the Volt gets 47 mpg (US gallons) versus the 37 mpg estimated by EPA.
In real world driving just the other day I was shuttling some boxes in my car in 2 round trips between the Silicon Valley and San Francisco along with a few other errands. In all, I drove 11 segments with the car turned off at least a few minutes between trips. Some segments were a few miles long. Some were almost 40 miles. The total distance was 217 miles with only a single overnight 120v battery charge that left the car almost but not quite fully charged.
I drove 40.6 miles EV at 55-57 on the highway and ended on a hill in SF. The rest of the 176.3 miles were in hybrid mode on gas at 49 mpg on 3.60 gallons. The last segment was short and on a cool engine. Before that, I was at 50 mpg.
So, the NEDC 47 mpg is actually doable but is at the higher end of what most people see.
maybe you're missing the posts above ... how it's best to talk about either U.S. measurements, versus european.
Consider for instance - what nedc stands for:
New European Driving Cycle (NEDC).
The european gallon is not the same as a U.S. gallon
Since the title of this is about the european fuel economy figures, those are the appropriate ones to talk about. We have no outlander guestimates on the US tests. I agree those european tests are fairly worthless when it comes to figuring out charge sustain mileage.
We do not even know if the Outlander phev will make it to america.
Huh? As I said, according to the NEDC gas-only hybrid (charge sustaining) estimate, the Volt/Ampera got 47 mpg (US) which is also around 56 mpg (UK Imperial) or 5.0l/100km (metric).
The metric version of these results are from the official GM Opel blog:
Really important numbers | Opel Ampera Blog
They also have a good explanation of the 196 mpg (US) "combined and weighted" estimate that is presumably comparable to the 151 mpg rumored/reported Mitsubishi result:
Combined and weighted | Opel Ampera Blog
like ANY PLUG IN, you could easily double or triple the estimated mileage here. interesting article, but waiting for some hard #'s here. dedicated 4WD in EV mode is an interesting concept and wondering now is it intelligent 4WD (only active when needed) that will run in most efficient mode needed or driver-set? which could means a HUGE hit in performance.
Anyone want to offer their interpretaiton of the phrase
"Mitsubishi says the Outlander is the first permanent four-wheel drive electric car in series production."
I get permanent 4wd (do its always on), but what do they mean by series production? Does it mean they are producing it already (its in present tense) or that they expect it to be mass produced? or do they mean series EV modes?
An earlier article
2013 Mitsubishi Outlander is World’s First 4WD Plug-in Hybrid: 2012 Geneva Motor Show | AutoGuide.com News
Said it was unveiled at the Geneva show.. so this article is a tad confusing.
They mean that the 4wd operates in series EV mode. The volvo v60 does a through the road 4wd, but the engine must be on and driving the wheels. Not much of a bullet point, but perhaps the outlander will be less expensive.
That's the full paragraph. The following ones discuss hybrid modes. There is a parallel mode.
I think it's just a typo didn't trip the spellcheck. Maybe it's supposed to be serious. As in not just for PR or compliance. They are saying they plan to produce and market it on a wide scale. i.e. the Leaf vs the RavEV. Or the word just shouldn't be there.
(industrial engineering) The manufacture of a product or service by a group of operations sequenced so that all materials will be routed successively through each production state. Also known as batch production.
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/series-production#ixzz1ypUQ0fWw
I suspect this means it is made on the main production line, not a hand made 'boutique' product.
I know that's the normal definition. but the car is not yet being produced I did not think that could be what they meant.
How many 'boutique' plug ins with full electric 4wd/awd are out there? I can only think of the Mini cooper EV. At least the conversion for the show circuit was. The ones for lease may not have been. Either way I don't think it's available anymore. There is a Dogde Ram PHV, IIRC, is in fleet road testing. I don't know if it has 4wd. Does the distinct really need to be made.
With series also having meaning within hybrid terminology, I think they could have used better word choice. Without the definition from a science and technology dictionary, I honestly thought it was an editing error. I got their intended meaning without it (I think), but why risk confusion among the public with a new product announcement.
I did a quick search to see if this wasn't a mistake in the article, but it appears in other reports. Couldn't find the original UK press release though.
Maybe they are differentiating from Via Motors.. which is not a traditional production line.
I realize now that a UK press release might be addressing something beyond the ken of the American public.
Its not really a UK press release.. its a UK restatment of earlier material. As I said in an earlier post most of the info was relased in the spring and the car was to show at the Geneva show.. so this whole thing was confusing to me.
I dug a bit more.. here is the Mitsubishi release from back in March
Mitsubishi Motors Newsroom
Which has the same wierd series statements saying
But looking at it it does later say
Separate names with a comma.