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2006 PRiis recall possible for my issue?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by jane et fils, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. jane et fils

    jane et fils New Member

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    Last week I received a horrible shock. Toyota service told me my 2006 Prius with only 63K needs a new HV ECU DC DC Converter Inverter Hybrid Inverter (or any of the many names I've heard it called) to the tune of $5800. Every hybrid owner knows the risk going in that someday they may need to replace the pricey hybrid battery, but no one EVER mentioned anything about this component that is way more expensive and apparently very, very vulnerable. It's like the nightmare with the HID headlights all over again. The safety issue is real; i.e., the car will stop dead while driving unless I replace this component. And no one can explain to me why a car with such low miles and so electronics dependent should have such an expensive and fragile component. I was having problems with my SECOND over-priced 12V battery randomly discharging over several months until it finally died and I had to have the car towed and a THIRD 12V installed, plus a couple of fuses for $500. When I picked up the car from my local mechanic he told me there were all kinds of warning lights that he couldn't reset. I immediately took it to Toyota who scanned it and got codes P0A08 and P0A09. I've spent hours on Prius Chat and other forums trying to understand it and have hit the limits of my intelligence. I called Toyota corporate and they offered me 50% discount since it was "out of warranty" but with low miles. I tried to make the case that the problem predated the end of my warranty which expired Sept 30, 2014, but they weren't having any of it. Two comments by Toyota service and the Toyota corp rep have made me wonder whether there are known issues with this component. The service person's first question was, "Have you had all your recalls done?" The Toyota corp rep volunteered to me that if there is a recall I will be reimbursed for the part. I had not specifically asked her about a recall. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO ON A RECALL FOR THE HV ECU COMING DOWN THE PIKE?? I want to love my Prius, I want to believe that buying a hybrid was the right thing to do, but now I feel punished for it.
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    There is no recall.

    Is it possible that the car was subjected to a botched jumpstart? That is usually the reason that the DC/DC converter (located within the inverter) will fail.

    In any event, have a used inverter installed, you can probably buy one on eBay for a three-digit amount.
     
  3. jane et fils

    jane et fils New Member

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    I've read about "backwards" jumps, though I'm not sure how that can happen, and I think I would know it. It may have been a function of how often I had to jump the 12V as it began to fail. I realize now, painfully, how little I understood about the electronics of this car. Especially head-smacking was the number of times I went out to my car in the a.m. to find my battery discharged, and FINALLY figuring out that if I parked within 10 ft of my front door (where I left my extra "Smart Key" just inside) it would turn on the computer and drain the 12V. No one EVER told me about that. I called Toyota service to ask them about it and they said casually, Oh yeah, we had that happen with a bunch of Avalons we parked too close to the key box. I've asked many people about this dumb issue with the Smart key and almost no one heard about it including the manager of the local Enterprise rental. My question remains, why would such an expensive part be so vulnerable. In what universe should anyone be shelling out thousands of dollars for a part on a car with such low mileage. Having said that, I will check Ebay. Thank you.

    P.S. I do know there is no recall...I'm just wondering if there is any talk of a widespread problem that might lead to one.
     
  4. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    We've had our prius parked between 8 and 12 feet from where we hang the key for over 6 years now. Never had the battery drain. Haven't seen a rash of inverter failures either in 6 years on this forum. There was an inverter pump recall several years back.
     
  5. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    If it is indeed the inverter assembly that is at fault, that would be a rather unusual situation based on postings here on PC. The inverter has proven to be rather reliable, and one of the least likely major components to fail. It can be damaged, as mentioned, by improperly done jump starts, and also by overheating due to the associated coolant pump failure. The latter does not tend to happen as the car will handle the situation through current limiting.

    The real problem with the Prius is not that it is prone to failure due to poorly designed components. Rather, it has proven to be very difficult to diagnose certain problems by mechanics used to standard cars. It would seem that your 12V battery problems were not handled properly.

    The proximity effect causing the key fob to query the car's immobilizer continuously, and causing 12V battery drain, is simple to avoid. Simply press the "Key" switch in, under the steering wheel. This will turn that system off.

    Where are you located? It has turned out that many dealers are just not the place to go for Prius service. The best shops are independents, but there are not so many of them. There are plenty of used inverters available. The installation is not so difficult, so perhaps there is someone in your area that will do it properly.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    your best bet is to call toyota and politely ask if they will help you financially, since you have such low miles. they have kelped many here cover the cost of the parts or a percentage of the whole job. all the best.(y)
     
  7. jane et fils

    jane et fils New Member

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    I really appreciate your replies. I discovered the Smart Key issue by READING THE MANUAL. Sigh. I promptly pushed the "key" button to turn off the Smart Key (which saddened me no end since it was my favorite feature of the Prius). May I respectfully offer a challenge to whether the Prius has poorly designed components by mentioning the many recalls the 2006 has had. The HID lights that I previously referenced was a big, fat, scary screw up that cost me hours and hours of time and energy and some dangerous situations. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the inverter that was recalled was different from the HV ECU one, instead it was related to the cooling system. So what I really want to know is how to specifically avoid issues with the 12V that may lead to blowing up the HV ECU.

    Toyota did offer a "discount" so now it will ONLY cost me $2144.48 (a nice round number!). Still outrageous and unaffordable for me. I don't have confidence in my local Toyota service center, and I feel certain if I bring the car in for this fix they'll find some way to get additional money out of me. That is what they do.

    I live in Central VA and have searched high and low for an independent who knows hybrids and won't rip me off. There's a company called the Hybrid Shop that reconditions batteries and trains other shops in hybrid technology. They have a shop 95 mi from me and one that is 50 mi from me but both of their hybrid specialists are out for 6-8 weeks recovering from surgery. It's really too far to go with a bad inverter anyway. I'm in a college town and we're tripping over Priuses here so you'd think there would be a market, but I'm not finding it. I'd appreciate any recommendations.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the cars have been nothing but trouble, you can see why sales are off. but as far as avoiding blowing up your inverter is concerned, keep your keys further from the car, so you don't drain the battery. if you do need a jump, watch the person doing it (if it's not you), make sure they connect the red to positive and the black to negative.
     
  9. jane et fils

    jane et fils New Member

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    I found it startling that the Toyota corp rep was actually fairly helpful and responsive. Like all Americans I spend most of my free time dealing with horrible customer service from pretty much every big corporation. So, while I think she should have covered the entire cost of the part and labor, it wasn't as awful as I expected. At the end of the conversation she asked if there was anything else she could do and I said, "yes, you could lend me $2000."
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good one.;)
     
  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    FYI there's supposedly a good hybrid shop called MACs in Ashland, VA.

    Have you owned the Prius as first owner? If not do you know where the first owner lived? Long shot but it would be covered by warranty in MD and other CARB states.
     
  12. jane et fils

    jane et fils New Member

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    I spoke to Mac himself and that was my next try. However, comments on yelp are that they are pricey. I am the first and only owner. It was a huge splurge at the time, only the 2nd new car I'd ever owned. It was purchased in VA so no CARB warranty. I did pick up on that from my hours of reading on PC. Just checked Ebay and there are slews of HV inverters for under $300. Unbelievable. These dealers just prey on us knowing we may become desperate without our cars. gggrrrrr.
     
  13. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Frequently a used part will sell for around 25% to 50% of the price of new, depending upon what it is. The reason why used inverters are so inexpensive is because there is little demand for them. Translation: the inverter is highly reliable, hence no reason for a recall.

    A new inverter is very expensive because 1) it is manufactured in Japan, 2) the electronics are reasonably complex and need to handle substantial power and 3) there is no alternative to Toyota parts sales for new parts. Operating under hybrid vehicle ECU control, the inverter provides power to/from the two motor generators in the transaxle, provides power to the air conditioner compressor motor, and also includes the DC/DC converter which maintains voltage on the 12V bus. So there is a lot to it.

    Since you came to this website to learn, one more thing that you should know is that if the 12V battery needs a jumpstart, you need to fully-charge the battery. Don't think that you can drive the car for 30 minutes and all will be well.

    If you don't use a battery charger overnight, you would need to leave the Prius READY for at least 8 hours uninterrupted to have a chance of bringing the 12V battery back to a reasonably charged state. (The car doesn't have to be driven during that time, but it has to remain in the READY operating mode.)
     
  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Believe it might be an option to have Toyota install the EBay unit too, if you have to.
    Sounds like best option is for Ebay unit by one of the independents. Actually sounds like you got more independent options there than I do in NoVA.
     
  15. stonerider

    stonerider Member

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    OP should count his lucky stars that it's the inverter that needs fixing. There are other more expensive parts like the HV battery and ICE. If I'd be so lucky as the op...
     
  16. jane et fils

    jane et fils New Member

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    Very helpful and excellent info about caring for the 12V. Clearly the 12V is the gateway to bigger problems with the electrical system and understanding it is vital to the health of the Prius. Wish I had this info from the beginning, but I didn't know what I didn't know.
     
  17. jane et fils

    jane et fils New Member

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    Patrick, anything I should look out for in buying an HV ECU on Ebay? Does mileage matter?
     
  18. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    From what I have learned about the recalls, it appears that the main problem has been due to manufacturing inconsistencies, rather than poor design. This was the case with the inverter coolant pump and the steering column. There are some cars which have not had problems with either component, others that failed quite early. The HID headlights did seem to be a real problem, which was compounded by the fact that people would take them to the dealer to have the bulbs changed, and thus be charged excessively.
     
  19. jane et fils

    jane et fils New Member

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    Yup
     
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    If I had to replace my inverter, I would first look for an inverter with the correct Toyota part number. Then, I would try to buy a unit from a car with less than 100K miles. Since the prices are so low, it should not cost much more to get a gently used unit.

    Before you purchase the used inverter, make sure you have an installation plan - i.e., you have found a competent mechanic willing to install the inverter.