Why is the Honda Insight not competing with these:

• 42 MPG - Honda Civic Hybrid
• 33 MPG - Volkswagon Jetta
• 31 MPG - Yaris
• 32 MPG - Mini Cooper
• 42 MPG* - 2010 Honda Big-Insight

Instead, the Honda Insight is competing with:

• 50 MPG* - 2010 Prius

* - projected, EPA composite mileage by vendors

I am amused that the Honda Big-Insight hybrid, a vehicle of modest performance, is written up as competing with the Prius, the Godzilla of hybrids. The only way any of the first set of vehicles 'compete' with the Prius is by either ignoring MPG (ranking everything else higher,) and vehicle class (family sedan,) or using "Top Gear" mileage practices (ignoring standard, lab based, mpg results.)

Bob Wilson

We know the new Insight will compete against the new Prius based on the entry price point. Question is, will Toyota launch a Prius lite to thwart Honda's gambit.

It will compete with the Honda Civic Hybrid since it has the same performance. It will cannibalized HCH sales.

Toyota has yet to move the HSD into the Scion and Yaris or an HSD minivan for the North American market. Also, a hybrid S-10 pickup and small delivery van would complete the picture.

Bob Wilson

How much does an HCH typically cost?

From 2009, Consumer Reports Cars, the HCH lists for $23,550 with an EPA combined mileage of 42 MPG.

Now we do not have official MSRP for the 2010 nor the informally reported 50 MPG. But we can somewhat estimate using the 2009 Prius, which in Consumer Reports Cars '09 lists for $21,500-$23,770 with an EPA of 46 MPG.

So I really see the HCH running interference for the 2010 Prius. It has a price somewhat like the Prius and MPG more like Big-Insight. So someone who might have bought an HCH can get the same performance for less.

I bought my copy of Consumer Reports Cars '09 at a local book store magazine rack.

Bob Wilson

I believe that Toyota more than has the ability to do this, and I believe they could do it within a month's time if they really wanted to. The problem is that the number of hybrid powertrains and batteries coming off of the assembly line each month is limited, and I assume Toyota wants to get as many of those into their flagship hybrid (aka The Prius) as possible. Question for those who want to explore the concept: would the Camry hybrid powertrain be sufficient to power the Sienna minivan? (I'm sure it would boost publicity for the ICE Sienna significantly over competing ICE minivans).

I think the Venza would be a perfect candidate for the hybrid system. 4k lbs instead of 5k lbs of the Sienna. And the Venza already can run on 180ish HP from its 4 banger.

I'd like to see a Prius drive train in an MR2! That would be fun on fumes.

They also make the Venza in the same Georgetown KY plant that makes the Camry hybrid.

Bob Wilson

I'd just like to see the Venza not have 19" wheels standard! Cost to replace tires is going to be 250 bucks a tire! I was so excited about this car coming out, and then they do everything in an impractical fashion... reminds me of an American manufacturer... Very disappointing.

Just give people a Camry wagon without jacking it up, putting monster rims on the thing, and tacking 7k to it....

Yuck.