2012 Honda Civic launches with new HF model; hybrid goes lithium

2012 Honda Civic launches with new HF model; hybrid goes lithium — Autoblog Green

Of particular note:

Sounds like a good commuter car if priced right, and looks like a Honda Accord.
As for the hybrid ... it does not sound at all competitive. Not against Prius, and not against its standard ICE twin.

Still waiting, Honda!

Why is the press release only giving the combined MPG figure for the hybrid?

Had a 84 CRX HF (mid-40's city back then!) and 90 Civic SI hatchback both new back in the day(s); both really great cars.

Agree with the article that the styling is rather bland but it's mainly the front end that's the culprit.

the press release is sneaky. They compare the highway mpg of the HF to the combined mpg of the Hybrid.

WTF !

Said by another on the VTEC.NET (Honda fan website)
"Hyundai can sleep well tonight!"

That being said...
The GX (natural gas) is still one of a kind and really for the most part 'an American fueled vehicle' even in a sense more so then the Volt as most natural gas in the USA is from the USA.

The HF is interesting though the new Elantra has close to the same MPG (1 mpg less) on their standard new 2012 model. Pricing will be important here.

The hybrid has a LI battery yet still fails to meet the mpg of the 2004 Prius! Pricing will be key here again and based on Honda's past hybrid pricing history the hybrid will sell in similar low volumes.

Yep and it doesn't seem to be ABG's doing either. Honda Media Newsroom - Civic - All-New 2012 Honda Civic Emphasizes Style, Fuel Economy and Performance also has the same omissions and comparisons.

2012 Honda Civic Photos and Info: Honda Civic News

They have not done the hyundai and infiniti trick of adding a second clutch. That means it must rotate the engine at all forward speeds. With its competition hybrid the prius with 134 hp, I'm surprised they didn't find a few more ponies in the new engine.

It sounds like they are using lithium for smaller size and weight. The hybrid drive train does not seem to have changed much other than the engine.

That thing is just fugly! I sure hope it looks better in person than in those pictures. The coupe looks like it borrowed the rear end from the Altima coupe (not exactly a looker either IMO).

Hmmm, looks like Honda is resurrecting the HF moniker. I wonder if they are going to carry over the R18 series engine over to the 9th gen Civic or they're going to tweak it.

And I'm guessing Honda is now using the L-series engine from the Fit as a displacement upgrade to the Civic Hybrid but its still disappointing.

Isn't 45mpg the best that Honda has ever done? Wasn't the Gen II Prius rated 48mpg? Honda may not be a Prius (you're comparing to THE best here), but they sure are progressing forward.

Would Lithium allow the rear seats to fold down flat?

While a completely different car, Honda did have the 60mpg Insight (original). Honda has not improved on the performance of the original mild hybrid system (IMA) since that car, all they have done is reduce cost and weight.

Hyundai has taken a IMA like approach (though mode advanced) and amplified the power 2.5x with great results. I was hoping Honda would have at least 25 electric HP in the next revision.

It doesn't look that bad if you just don't look at the front or rear end of the car. The interior appears well designed.

It's actually amazing to me how awful Honda's hybrid technology is. Did they not spend a nickel on it in the last decade? Toyota has just destroyed them.

I've wondered 'why doesn't Honda build a full hybrid?' Of course they could do it, geez, they're Honda. Would they have to pay Toyota license fees to do so?

anyrate ... the 09 Prius had 46 MPG combined FE in US.

Nice move on the Si though .. from 2.0 to 2.4L ... 139 lbft to 170 ... that should keep them happy.

Well the Insight is a purpose-built hybrid as is the CRZ. Although perhaps purpose built is not the right term, since the CRZ gets worse mileage than a Humvee pulling a missile launcher over rough terrain. I thought the Honda Accord Hybrid was quite decent but that got yanked.

In fact WTH is Honda doing? Nissan, GM, Ford, it seems most of the brands are moving toward hybrid or electric in some capacity but I'm drawing a blank on pointing to anything interesting coming out of Honda. Maybe they've spent too much time on that walking robot of theirs.

I meant for Honda to build a serial-parallel (full) hybrid as opposed to only serial (mild, IMA) hybrid. They haven't built a full hybrid yet.

Anyone heard Honda is going to step it up one of these years? And there they are leasing the Clarity FC hydrogen car. Where is that going to go?

Honda was a no-show at the GreenDriveExpo back in October, but a Civic hybrid and the rest wouldn't have stacked up well next to a PHV Prius.

btw, I have seen 3 CRZ's out on the road so far, count 'em, three.

Honda Introducing BEV and PHEV to US and Japan in 2012; Demonstration Programs in US Begin This Year | FavStocks

We don't have a firm date but the phev will need to be a full hybrid. Honda had been betting on hydrogen, and fell behind. Toyota is still claiming they are going to have hydrogen cars. PHEVs seem like a much easier goal.

I can not be upset with 45 mpg, its still an amazing number. Honda just could have done better by giving the civic a bigger electric motor and a second clutch without adding much to the price.

As far as I know Hyundai did it without major fees. Honda could just expand the current IMA to more power and it would be pretty close to the Hyundai system.