2014.5 Toyota Camry Hybrid SE Limited Edition

I'd rather buy Toyotas new Corolla Eco which gets 42mpg and only cost $20,000. That's not as high as the hybrid but still cheaper overall to own.

 

I'm a bit of an SE snob, IMO the SE needs the torque and horsepower of the V6.

I suppose there are some that just want the look of the SE without the fuel economy penalty of the V6. But to each their own I guess.

SCH-I535

 

I like it.

 

i think your right. hybrid buyers probably aren't going to care that much about this. it is pretty tho...

 

My friend thinks these size cars need a V6. Even a hybrid.

 

I was of the same mind, but my previous Camry (1999) had the 3L V6 that was rated at only 195 HP I believe, and that felt pretty good acceleration wise. So the hybrid at 200 HP is respectable.

If I could do it all over again, I might have bought a Camry hybrid instead of my SE V6. The mpg difference is quite worth it.

However, I'm probably going to hold on to this car for 10+ years, I don't know how good a TCH would be at 10+ years versus a well maintained V6.

SCH-I535

 

I'd suspect the audience looking at SE Limited Edition Hybrid Camrys are looking for something a little more upscale than a Corolla.

And truth in advertising, The Corolla Eco is 42 mpg Highway...30 city...excellent by ICE standards, but still far below Hybrid gas mileage standards.

Still not to hijack this thread...the Corolla Eco is an interesting and I think exciting automobile-from an efficiency standpoint. If I was in the market I'd be looking at one.

Has to make you wonder about the future. When perhaps someday the all the ICE and valve technology that goes into the Corolla Eco...might be combined with the Hybrid Technology of a Prius.

 

I'll pass altogether and will do so until Camry has a precise layout for driver and becomes ranked with Accord on driveability.

I do not think journalists and reviewers 'have it in' (anything against) Camrys, but take away the stellar reliability and judge it on its driveability and desirability, Camrys are ranked out of the top spots (7 out of 8 on one '13/'14 comparo Autoguide, just above Kia Optima and behind all the rest from Hyundai, Nissan, VW, Honda, Mazda, Subaru not in that order).

 

just goes to show the vast chasm between the auto writers and the majority of the driving public. and truth be known, not only are boring cars popular, but writing about them is boring as well.

 

I don't think you'd much difference in giving the Prius more advanced valve control. With the motor to provide power and torque when demanded, having the ICE able of Otto cycle isn't going to add much to the total package.

 

I'm talking about a process, of shared gains and advancement...I'm speaking more generally.

To an extent it is already happening, The Corolla ECO I believe has under plating similar to The Prius.

Who can say there wouldn't be a benefit to cross advances. The Corolla ECO get's 30 mpg city, and 42 Highway, with as you point out a Otto cycled engine as opposed to a Atkinson cycled engine.

I'm not so sure there wouldn't be gains. I'd be really curious what monster you could create if you took the Otto Cycled ECO engine of a Corolla ECO and combined it with the hybrid technology of HSD. The Atkinson cycle engine has been used to this point because it is more efficient...not because it is more powerful, because it isn't.

Toyota seems to have found a way to make a very efficient Otto Cycled engine coupled with new valve control.

I'm interested and happy for the advancement. Even if we never do get an Otto Cycled Toyota Prius.

 

The Corolla Eco is using more advanced valve control, and has a higher compression ratio than the engine in the base trim. It's an Otto that gets better fuel economy by going, at least near, Atkinson when high power isn't needed. It uses the Atkinson for efficiency and Otto for when it needs power. A Lexus, and likely some engines by other makes do the same.

A Toyota hybrid already uses an Atkinson cycle for efficiency. It doesn't need an Otto cycle for power because it has the electric motor for that. For a more performance oriented hybrid, an Otto cycle could help pump up the numbers. It will do the same in a Prius, but most likely at the expense of fuel economy.

 

But this isn't exactly my point.
Your definition I think makes my point.
More "advanced valve control" which allows an Otto cycle engine to get better efficiency is an advancement.

Unless someone builds a Hybrid using some blend of Hybrid Electric and new valve control Otto cycle engine, I think it's pretty hard to quantify what type of machine you might be dealing with...but more power with more efficiency is pretty much something I think most everyone would want.

But it doesn't matter. My point is that advances in engine development, and efficiency from either the pure ICE side or continued advancement and refinement of Hybrids...raises the tide for everyone.

I'd be really surprised if someone at Toyota hasn't thought of the idea of mixing the technology or pieces of the technology of the Corolla Eco engine with Hybrid technology.

 

Hardly. Honda Accord sales are always right on the heels of Camry, and that doesn't include Camrys benefit of being sold to fleets for rentals, unlike Accord which is not sold to fleets.

 

even if it's 50/50, you won't see 50% positive reviews of camry, unless they're allowed to throw in the de facto tag lines: boring, unassuming, bland, vanilla, blah, blah, blah...

 

Not knowing the specifics of the engine is why I said near Atkinson. Modern Atkinson engines aren't true Atkinson cycles. The true one had a set of cams between the pistons and crankshaft that resulted in differing length intake/compression to power/exhaust strokes. What we call Atkinson cycles now are Otto engines that control valve timing to mimic that differing stroke length.

Maybe it doesn't go far enough to be defined as Atkinson, but the high compression ratio of the Corolla Eco implies that it can get close to it. Unless it calls for premium fuel.

Current Atkinson engines are Ottos that have valve timing and compression ratios that prioritize efficiency over power. Variable valve control that allow an efficiency and power profile have been on Otto engines for awhile now. It's what the V-tech on Hondas was all about. The current Prius engine uses it. It has been improving through the years where we are getting to the point that we will see engines that can switch between an Otto and Atkinson cycle. They will likely be direct injection too in order not to require higher octane during the Otto cycle.

While a hybrid could see benefit from such an engine, they just won't see as much benefit as a non-hybrid. With the electric traction motor, they don't have the need for as powerful Otto cycle. The advanced valve controls might allow a smaller displacement engine than used now. But so could a turbo or super charger.

We have become too focused on the Eco engine. While it helps, the new CVT likely has a larger part in the car's EPA ratings. That's a big step over the 4 speed still in the base Corolla.

 

CVT makes a difference to boost city MPG, but not much change in the highway test. For example the CVT option in my Civic had worse highway rating than the manual (so I choose manual). I would expect a Corolla Eco to get 44-45 mpg if it had the six-speed manual.