1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

4kwh Enginer GenIII PHEV in UK

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by Flaninacupboard, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    did they replace the whole pack? or just the individual cell? I think I have a bad cell too. It's always the first one to go down and constantly being balanced. Did you take pictures of the cell?
     
  2. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I do have pictures of the inside of the pack and cells, but don't think enginer want them published at the moment.

    The two packs are made up for 64 cells in total, so each "Cell" on the BMS is 4 cells in parallel. all 4 cells in "Cell16" had failed, and i was sent 4 new cells to replace "Cell 16".

    How low is your cell going? mine was dropping to under 2.5V in less than a minute under load. if it's at 2.9 while the others are at 3.0 then it's probably ok.
     
  3. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Mine never dropped that low. It drops to 2.9 while others are at 3.15-3.25
     
  4. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well the converter will suspend output at 48V, which is 3V per cell. if you end up with most at 3.02 and the low one at 2.7 you'll hit 48V. That cell is weaker, but not yet faulty. if a cell goes to 2.5V before the string is at 48V, then it's faulty.

    Also, yesterday the trip to work was 55mpg, this morning it was 72mpg, in -1 weather.
     
  5. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    284
    72
    0
    Location:
    El Monte, CA USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    If one cell is at 2.9V without a load, then it is probably at around 2.6V under the load of 70~80amps. You may have an balance issue. In theory, the BMS should bring that cell back into balance after a few more charge cycles. So if it continues then you may have a bad cell. Cell balance under load is much more critical.
     
  6. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    3,686
    699
    2
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    This is the type of problem involving LOW, LOW quality control in behalf of the US distributor representing low budget products.
    It's a shame that a good borrow technical concept is being tarnished by such a inconceivable quality control.
    I feel sorry for the overseas purchasers that have to go through this type of inconveniences and expenses.
    Amen.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yep, it's a pain alright, but there is -literally- no other option for PHEV here, and petrol is about to hit $8 a gallon.

    At least they've recognised quality is the main thing they need to improve, and they can do it without adding masses of expense. I understand all your comments about guinea pigs etc, but for someone like myself who can use basic tools and has an understanding of electronics it's a fair tradeoff for the MPG gain while it's working.
     
  8. Jands

    Jands New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    88
    7
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah - I suppose it's not really a viable option for someone overseas who has no electronics knowledge...perhaps the situation will change come Feb with local installers...but both UK installers are down south which is a long way to go every time the Enginer kit stops working...
     
  9. louisianasolar

    louisianasolar New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    1
    0
    0
    Location:
    Louisiana
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
     
  10. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Enginer.us You can order a kit now on ebay for 2495 + 250 shipping for DIY installation but starting February, you can only purchase the kit from authorized dealer at an inflated price and most likely plus a minimum $500 installation price.
     
  11. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It would be. but, if they kept decent stock in reserve the turnaround for replacements would be quick. i think if i were doing this i'd put each kit in a car to test for a couple of weeks to identify any problems before it went in a customer car. kind of limits you to how many installs you can do though...
     
  12. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    4,365
    3,209
    1
    Location:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Many dealers/installers bench test the system before ever doing the install. This means fully hooking it up, putting a load on it, etc. This way, hopefully we can catch some of the things that were not noticed prior to shipping. (A bad switch, a break in the communications wire, etc.) This certainly is added time per install and should be compensated. I wouldn't necessarily call this "inflating" the price, but the price will certainly increase accordingly. It definitely saves the customer time from showing up for their install only to find that it can't be completed because of a bad component from the factory.
    When I do an install I spend time behind the wheel of the car, draining the stock pack, filling it back up, and making any adjustments to the system as needed. This also takes time. Plus followup after the install will fall directly to dealers/installers.
     
  13. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah, having experienced the hassle invovled an extra $500 to an installer with a guranteed working and optimised (still can't get over 6 bars!) system would have been worthwhile. Unfortunately the installation premium in the UK was £1,000 (over $1,500) and still a couple hundred miles away.

    What's core to the problem is that the quality of the product should be high enough that initial bench testing and optimisation is not required...
     
  14. Jands

    Jands New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    88
    7
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    What do you mean you can't get over 6 bars? Is the kit not recharging the traction battery enough?
     
  15. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    If i park up and leave the kit switched it gets to six bars (don't have a scangauge so i don't know if it's a "low" six bars or "high" six bars) and then ramps current down to 0amps. while driving in EV it will maintain six bars, and has boosted mpg nicely, but i would expect to see at least 7 and sometimes 8 bars. i'm leaving it until the weather has warmed slightly to see if that helps, it was -4 this morning, as i'm sure temperature must have an impact on the SOC calculation.
     
  16. Jands

    Jands New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    88
    7
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Flan - I don't know much about electronics but I'm wondering if you've come across http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p.../89542-custom-enginer-5kw-800-miles-tank.html and whether it may help/explain what you are seeing...especially the bit about how JonnyD couldn't get the unit to charge his TB pass 56% SOC until the bugged Jack and altered the voltage cutoff to 243V...now he gets 70-75SOC...he believes the new converter settings were reduced to minimise failure rates.
     
  17. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Cheers, interesting. I am pursuing upping the converter output voltage, but also still have a weak cell so will try and get that sorted first.
     
  18. Jands

    Jands New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    88
    7
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Hmm - worth following that thread because now mrbigh is saying upping the voltage would only harm the stock batteries. I'm way out of my depth so stopping right here :)
     
  19. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well, still waiting on my replacement cell. At the moment i'm only able to get about 0.4kwh into the kit (which should be 4kwh.) so only getting about 10 miles blended range before empty. No response from Enginer for a week, checking to see if i can source some replacement cells myself, and looking at a MiniBMS to add extra protection to the battery pack.

    Still getting 77MPG though!
     
  20. Jands

    Jands New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    88
    7
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Makes a mockery of a two year guarantee...

    Anyway, it's great to see someone in the UK doing some of this PHEV stuff and sharing their findings so keep us informed.