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Accessory Mode While Pumping Gas

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by XavierKing, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. XavierKing

    XavierKing Junior Member

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    Greetings! I have a quick question. In my previous cars, I have put the key in "Accessory" mode while filling the gas tank. In fact, Tom and Ray on Car Talk say that it is fine to have the car in Accessory mode while filling up.

    I am wondering if I can do something similar with the Gen III Prius?

    Just the other day, I turned off the car, put it in accessory mode (I pushed the power button twice without my foot on the brake), and listened to the radio while pumping gas.

    I wasn't sure if this was a problem or not. Please advise.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Munpot42

    Munpot42 Senior Member

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    Not a problem, I wouldn't just because of the small size of the 12 volt battery, if the engine is warm and the battery indicated is near full, just leave it in ready mode or as a courtesy to others leave the music off.
     
  3. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I always put it in park while I'm filling. I don't shut off the car. Most of the time the engine isn't running, unless it's cold, and then it's good to have the interior heat that results.

    I'll spare everyone another rant about mindless, fascist rules concocted without any actual risk-assessment, but I've never heard of a case where it was actually proved that running an engine while filling the tank has resulted in fire or explosion.
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I'd shut it right off.
     
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  5. XavierKing

    XavierKing Junior Member

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    I'm more concerned about damaging internal components than the risk of fire. If the engine were to start up while filling, I'm not sure what the risk of that might be on the components.

    I'm also unsure about any of the valves or other components not in the right "mode" to have gas added to the tank.
     
  6. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I'm not worried. I've never even had a light go on, saying that the fuel cap is loose.
     
  7. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I'm a conscious minded human been and with a fond respect to the environment, I tell my Prius to shut of the engine while at a fuel station :rolleyes:
     
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  8. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Well, I HAVE seen videos where gas has been ignited while being pumped. It does happen. And in nearly every case it traces back to "electricity" and a spark. Often static electricity.

    IMO? Just turn it off. In most states somebody has to pump the gas, then go pay the bill. Unless you are listening to a news bulletin about the end of the world, or ongoing Zombie Invasion why do you need the accessories ON while pumping the gas? Part of me defaults to the idea that I rebel against the idea that we must always be "plugged in". Regardless of the probably astronomically LOW or near non-existent risk? I can turn off the car TOTALLY while pumping gas. I agree that it probably doesn't make much of difference if any BUT...in the most simplistic terms, I figure ON...with electricity....creates the possibility for an arc or spark, more than OFF with no electricity being fed to accessories.

    Look at it as a Zen like exercise in focusing on the task at hand (Pumping Gas)...and being momentarily unplugged.
     
  9. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I know it happens, but it's easier to make an "engines off" rule than to find out the real cause. If someone was smoking, there may not be proof; it's easier to blame the car. Mythbusters did a test, where they could not make gas-tanks explode, even shooting them with incendiary bullets. It takes a special set of circumstances to make it happen; a fire, overheating the gasoline in the tank before it ruptures.

    That's why I don't bother shutting off the car unless they ask me to. Meaningless gesture in my opinion.
     
  10. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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  11. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    This might be an appropriate time to explain my signature-line.

    Nowadays there's a lot of risk-avoidance, but not much risk-assessment. Risk management should involve assessing the risks and designing strategies to deal with them; not simply making thousands of rules, hoping everyone remembers them all, and follows them to the letter.

    They tried that at Chernobyl. That was where a nuclear reactor went critical and spewed radiation over a large area devastating the landscape and killing many. They had rules, plenty of them, but no one could do their job by following them all, or even remember them, therefore they became accustomed to ignoring them.

    That's what happens if you treat people like small children, holding their hands and telling them what to do at every turn. They don't think for themselves, because they don't have to. True "safety" requires everyone to think for themselves and assess all the possible risks they may face. Signing off on a rule-sheet is a recipe for the type of complacency which is behind nearly every avoidable disaster throughout history.

    [rant over]

    P.S. I have a perfect safety record at work, and I've never caused a traffic accident in over 40 years of driving.
     
  12. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I know it happens, but it's easier to make an "engines off" rule than to find out the real cause. If someone was smoking, there may not be proof; it's easier to blame the car. Mythbusters did a test, where they could not make gas-tanks explode, even shooting them with incendiary bullets. It takes a special set of circumstances to make it happen; a fire, overheating the gasoline in the tank before it ruptures.

    That's why I don't bother shutting off the car unless they ask me to. Meaningless gesture in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

    It is not the gas by itself but the primary cause will be the stray vapor gases serving as igniters to the BIG BANG !!!
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    My daughter has an expression: "choose your battles". My 2 cents: just go with the flow with this one. I mean, when the plane's about to take off, are you (anyone in the leave-it-on camp) the one that insists on keeping the cell phone on, 'cause there's very little evidence that... And yeah, I know, they're actually phasing that regulation out.

    But if some authority has a regulation in place, however fiddly, however debatable, however outmoded, or perfectly valid: it's not causing you personal grief? Let it go, abide by the rules.
     
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  14. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I don't battle anyone; if they ask me to shut it off, I shut it off.

    However, I think this would be a much safer world if we were required to assess the actual risks around us instead of relying on mindless rules to protect us.
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    So? A flash fuel fire can be quite tragic without an actual gas tank explosion. E.g. the raging fire that burned and killed four Vancouver BC visitors at a fuel station near my home (at that time, three decades ago, along I-5 here in WA) didn't involve a gas tank explosion.
     
  16. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    And what happens if the car jumps into drive, which I believe has had more than one recall? Or a unseen damaged wire sparks and causes a fire? It doesn't have to explode the gas tank to cause a problem. Granted, the Prius is a different animal since the ICE may not start, but I sure don't want to fill up next to someone who leaves their car running or uses the phone while filling up. It's just common sense, though some don't use it, so we have to have laws. It's like saying you don't need to stop for red lights because you don't see anyone coming. I wonder how many people who have been hit said they didn't see anyone coming. And, no, I'm not trying to be holier than thou, but how hard is it to press a darned button. Next we'll end up with sensors on the filler door so it won't open with the car running. And we wonder why cars cost so much.
     
  17. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I don't think that can happen when I'm outside the car, with the keyfob in my pocket.

    Actually, we have a little-known law here that says you don't actually have to stop for a red light when there's no traffic coming. Most people don't know about it (including cops) but there has been at least one court-case won over it, if I recall.

    I'm sure it will be repealed some day as a "dangerous law" even though it makes perfect sense, and isn't dangerous at all, when you think about it.
     
    #17 GregP507, Nov 25, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  18. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    While I wasn't talking about the Prius specifically, it's easy enough to find out. Have you and your wife sit in the car while it's running, toss your fob our your window and then have her shift to D. And I don't know how you identify an "unseen" damaged wire that might spark. I read reports right here about mice and squirrels eating the costing off wires. And it's even worse with other cars where you're back there pumping gas and inhaling the fumes from the running engine. Just doesn't make sense to me.
     
  19. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    Well, life is full of risks and I'll live with that one. If someone else is in the car, I'll use the parking brake. That way they can still enjoy the stereo and the climate-control while I fill the tank.
     
  20. kbeck

    kbeck Active Member

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    All right. I used to be in Naval Air. As such, right out of boot camp, they sent me straight to Aviation Recruit School at Naval Air Station Memphis, in Millington, TN.

    If there's one thing the U.S. Navy hates, it's fires at sea. And, unfortunately, they have considerable experience with those. And the causes. So they go to extreme lengths to keep fires, especially aircraft fires, from occurring.

    So, they fuel aircraft on aircraft carriers. And at military airports. Both places are treated the same way.

    The fuel: Either Avgas (read: ridiculously high octane gasoline) with wonderful evaporative properties and a low flash point, or JP-5 jet fuel, which is essentially kerosene. It's not quite as flammable as avgas, evaporating slower with a higher flashpoint.

    In both cases: Before fueling, the tanker is connected to a ground. The airplane gets at least two connections to ground. The end of the fueling hose is grounded to the airplane. The nozzle is stuck in. Somebody checks the grounds with a meter. And then, and only then, is the aircraft fueled. At the end of the fueling process the hose is carefully removed, the cap placed back on the aircraft quickly, the hose carefully retracted back into the tanker, and ground wires carefully removed. And everybody wears shoes that are guaranteed non-sparking and non-static.

    Why all this craziness with ground wires? Because once you have an air-fuel mixture, all it takes is one spark. Anywhere. And the Navy really doesn't like flames around aircraft that (a) are flammable and (b) are often carrying very high explosives. Think it hasn't happened? The Navy has pictures. They really don't like fires at sea.

    So, there you are, filling your car. And there's the guy in the stall next to yours, filling his car. Sure, we got gas-vapor recovery systems on the fuel pumps. But, tell me, you've never overfilled your vehicle, or had the gas station attendant do so while trying to get the meter on the pump to that round-dollar value? Or the guy in the stall next to yours overfill his/her car? Then, you've got gas on the deck.

    Sure. There's a breeze out, reducing the gas/air fuel mixture below any possible flash point. You/the gas station attendant/the guy in the stall next to yours/ are all very careful individuals and never make a mistake. The vapor recovery system is perfect and never fails to remove gas vapors. And the engine never runs when it's in standby. And there's never frayed or broken wires. And there's never a cumulus cloud passing by overhead, increasing the static E field in the air around one until it's just that far from sparking. Yeah, that stuff never happens.

    And then, all the stars can align in the wrong direction and Bad Things can happen.

    It's risk management. So, maybe it's 100,000:1 odds against. But one push on the button turns the car off and another turns it on.
    Here's a quote from the National Fire Protection Agency:
    • An estimated 5,020 fires and explosions occurred at public service stations per year from 2004-2008. That means that, on average, one in every 13 service stations experienced a fire. These 7,400 fires caused an annual average of two civilian deaths, 48 civilian injuries and $20 million in property damage.
    • Of those 5,020 fires, almost two-thirds (61%) involved vehicles. Structure fires accounted for 12% of total incidents but 59% of the direct property damage.
    • Twelve percent of fire incidents at service stations were outside trash or rubbish fires.
    Why risk it? Just turn the blame car off like your Drivers' Ed teacher told you to.

    KBeck