Another example of why Chevy will never really make it

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by AZGeek, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. AZGeek

    AZGeek Semi-informed Member

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  2. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    If they would price the damn thing so whats left of the middle class could actually afford one maybe they would sell a few more a month! I heard a news report that they rerated the Electric Travel distance from 75 miles to 37. If that's the case, that is a death blow for the car. A 75 mile battery would work for me just fine, I do love the interior, but the cost, I will stick with my 'lil Red Baby, for another few years. Lets see if there is a Gen II Volt. If it really survives, maybe I can toss the Lutz is a Putz bumper sticker and try a Volt Mk II!
     
  3. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I'm not sure what you heard on the radio but nothing has changed with the battery range recently.

    The official EPA battery range is 35 miles for the Volt for both 2011 and 2012 model years. Under mild conditions you can realistically do 35-50 miles depending on speed and driving technique. Under the same conditions you can drive a 2012 Plugin Prius 11-15 miles on battery.
     
  4. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    The thing is...If somebody can't afford the gas prices then they really can't afford a 40 grand Volt:eek:
     
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  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    We have a winner!

    Those people buy used 50 mpg Prius, or used 40 mpg highway Hyundai or Ford or maybe in a few years Cruze.
     
  6. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Bad karma from EV1 still lingers
     
  7. scottf200

    scottf200 Member

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    From a GM person:
     
  8. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Really, 35, that would just make going to and from work, no side trips, the object being NEVER run the ICE because you need it, only to keep it up to snuff. I thought it originally had a 75 range, or am I thinking of the Leaf?....... and if so, does it really do 75 miles???
    We need BIGGER BADDER BETTER BATTERIES!!! :eek:
     
  9. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I'll bet you were hearing about some PR from Ford today announcing the EPA range estimate of 76 miles for the new Ford Focus Electric. The LEAF estimate is 73. These EPA battery range estimates are conservative. You may do worse in cold winter conditions but you can easily do better the rest of the year. On the other hand, you need to keep a reasonable reserve of 5-10 miles when driving a battery-only car but you can fully use the estimated range in a hybrid plugin because you have the gas engine for backup.

    Yes, we need better and cheaper batteries but there is every indication that will be happening. Lots of researching is being done on battery tech now and there are multiple promising improvements that are on track to be commercialized soon. Batteries are getting "better" (cheaper/smaller/lighter) at the pace of about 7% a year and there is no sign of that ending anytime soon.
     
  10. sub3marathonman

    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    That addresses my thoughts exactly.

    I was wondering what the opinion is for a Leaf at full MSRP compared to a Volt at a discount, both being equally priced which would a person buy?

    I keep thinking, I hate GM and really wouldn't support them no matter what the price is, but then I keep thinking I suppose somebody else will, so what does it matter what I do.
     
  11. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Too expensive, but it's not that GM has it priced too high, it's that the technology in the car is just too expensive to make it lower. And caught between this rock and a hard place the buying public just doesn't want to pay way over 30 grand (after $7500 credit) for an efficient 4 seater chevy cruze.
     
  12. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The more expensive volt seems to sell just as well in America as the leaf. Drop the price of the volt, and IMHO the volt will greatly outsell the leaf. Neither has high sales though. PHEVs remove one of the draw backs of BEVs range anxiety. Nissan has priced their leaf low to get sales. IMHO those wanting plug ins but worried about range will flock to phevs. Those not likeing GM will soon have the choice of toyota or ford. I'm not expecting high volumes of any of these cars until gen II.
     
  13. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    The Leaf does 100 miles on the LA4 cycle. But that's not realistic. People seem to be able to get around 85 miles real world, though some get like 115.

    You want a big battery pack? Tesla Model S, 300 miles range. Yes, it's expensive. That's the thing about EVs. Batteries are not cheap. But once we ruin this Earth by burning all the petroleum, all the money in the world won't bring it back.

    As for Volt, I still believe that GM wants it to fail. Sure, they talk about how they are serious about it. But when could you believe anything GM says? They priced themselves out of the market. Whether by designing a car that's too expensive for what it does, or by just demanding too much profit. A gas car is a lot cheaper, and an electric car should go farther. They've built the worst of both worlds.
     
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  14. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    What is their motivation for it to fail, though? Not only is it a black mark on the company should it fail, but with the decade-long run up in gas prices, any car company not ready to react to that will be squeezed more and more out of the market. In the current climate Toyota is an absolute dominator in this market (multiple hybrid offerings). I expect gas to continue to creep up, but only when (or if) batteries get cheaper will Tesla and Nissan (which has thrown a lot behind) EV really flower. Tesla will likely never sell huge and always be niche, licensing as it has been to Toyota. GM has to know that these alternative vehicles will keep taking market share in the future. Its fuel cell vehicle isn't even close to ready for anything.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have seen the same new volt ad three times in the last hour. looks like the press is on!
     
  16. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Hands down the Volt. My wife doesn't want a BEV. ;)
     
  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Their motive is that they are so highly invested in gasoline and servicing gas engines. They crushed the EV1 and sold the NiMH patent to Cobasys because they didn't want to see EVs on the road.

    You underestimate Tesla. Tesla's business plan from the very first was to break into the car market at the high end, where a start-up company can compete. Then move to higher-volume luxury cars (the Model S and Model X). Eventually they plan to sell an affordable family sedan. The Roadster was a niche car, 2,500 total built. The Model S will be in the BMW class, larger numbers than the Roadster, but still upscale, and low volume compared to the mainstream. After the Model X they plan to build a car in the $30K range. That's when they enter the mainstream. It takes time.
     
  18. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Your conspiracy theory is missing something. Yeah facts. The volt has an engine:) GM doesn't own gasoline, and its getting more expensive. Everyone involved in the nimh sale is gone. People are saying there is no market for evs, and are mad at gm for expanding too fast:) So far this year gm has sold more plug in cars in NA than anyone else. How does that mean they are trying to fail.

    I think you have an idea in your head, and any fact contridicts your belief you just choose to ignore. I'm not saying gm is alruistic, or executing well, but it takes a special mind to believe they want to fail and go bankrupt again.
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    You crack me up, AG.
     
  20. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Up until last week, how many plug-ins were available so far this year? One? Two? :rolleyes:
     
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