Discussion in 'Tesla' started by PeakOilGarage, Dec 22, 2008.
in yourr case i got me 2 spare one's
well said darell and i think we all have to agree that "to err is human" and EV's will not go mainstream until they have built in "mistake forgiveness" OR enough range to get you "there and back" a few times just in case you do forget to plug in.
even with the limited range i have on my Zenn, i have actually forgotten to plug in twice (still had enough to get to work to plug in. in fact, that was first time i plugged in at work)
also, twice when power failed, but both times, the partial charge was enough to get me to work. BUT i am lucky, my situation would not work for a lot of people, but my commute is short enough and can be done all on streets with speed limit of 45 mph or less (which is the max speed at which NEV's are limited to ) AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT IS TRUE TODAY
but until we smooth out the bleeding edge of EV tech, that fact will never change, and its simply fear and lack of support is the reason we have so far to go now... as we all know, we have moved BACKWARDS... all i really need is what we had 10 years ago. as much as the Zenn does it for me, if i had a RAV 4 EV like Darell does, heck, i would not be in the market for another car until my Current Pri needed replacing. right now, any change in location or jobs could force me to get another gas (ick!!) car.
now, the *real* problem is perception. as many of us have experienced with the Pri when it first came out, just a few neigh-sayers, or a couple of exaggerated reports by a very few well placed articles can sway MILLIONS to believe something that is simply not true.
the whole brunt of this conversation really boils done to a "reputable" car show that simply, outright lied. that puts them in the same league as the people who published reports about the Pri concerning battery failures, electrocution by rescue workers, and other outlandish, completely false accusations. and lets face it, the Pri is revoluntionary, but despite its relatively uncomplicated "seamless" change from 100% ICE operation, it met with an unrealistically large hurdle to overcome. that hurdle did not have to do with the simple instruction to learn that "inserting key" was not necessary, or "please examine courtesy parking card for instruction on how to start your Prius" , it was all about accepting change
right now i have an EV that goes 38 mph and get 30 miles on a good day. that fills the needs of a certain population. ok that is fine. but this is the right way to go and every invalid dissenting comment put us back two steps. what will soon be available is EV's that do 60 mph and gets 150 miles, HEY, that will add to the percentage of drivers who dont need any more than that, along with that will be a percentage of drivers that could have done with the first step in EV evolution.
then we hope to be at 400 miles on a charge and more people will come aboard, then next comes a system when we can get a boost at charging stations that take 5 minutes and gives us an additional 250 miles of range for longer extended trips, and so on and so on.
each advance will bring millions more into the EV world but NOT BECAUSE EV's have advanced in range!!! as much as people will say that is the reason why they finally made the plunge, the real fact is, by that time, they will have known several people who have used one without issue. even today, i still talk to people who have a complete misconception about the Prius, but most buy now because they know people first hand who have one who blew the misconceptions out of the water.
the reason why i now plug in everywhere i go that a plug is publicly available is to get the word out. to be honest with ya, its a pain in the butt. it was nice to have my plug aready stuck in the wall, hanging on a hook so i dont have to bend over to pick it up when i get home. i pull in, walk around (ya, its on the far side IN THE BACK!!) and plug in. so plugging it in in public, requires me to unplug, toss cord in back and then go. ( i should just get another cord!!) but i do it because every time i do, there will be someone who sees that and will be convinced by thinking "hey!! if he can do it, i can too" and it will be someone who has been thinking about doing it for a long time and has been hesitant probably because he read an article or SAW A TV SHOW that propagated false info.
ok, we have really have the point and this discussion as always brings up valid points for and against. the real thing to believe is that EV's are right for the country. wont go into the obvious, but sorry all, JUST HAVE TO SAY THIS!!!
i mentioned this earlier. but electricity is not infallible. i mentioned in the 14 months i have had my Zenn, we have had two major power failures... now, every year, i spend up to $500 on grass fed beef, no hormones, feed made of animal parts, inhumane treatment, etc. well it goes in my freezer. now that is a hefty investment.... now do i have a generator to backup my electricity... nope i dont... do i live in fear that i will lose power and all the meat i have stored?? nope... and the reason why?? its all a calculated risk based on things preventable (like charging when you are supposed to) and unpreventable things like power outages.
as you can see, NOTHING IS PERFECT, and all things can go wrong. if we really wanted to look at potential issues, i would look at the breakdown rate of cars verses electric motors, some of which have been documented to go hundreds of thousands of hours without fail which is the equivalent of MILLIONS OF MILES IN A REGULAR CAR. so there is potential for failure with any option
Being the only mechanic I know who hates working on cars, one of the attractions electric cars offer is less maintainance. I can't wait.
efusco has one point that should be addressed. For EVs to become mainstream, the fears and perceptions of the EV spouse need to be overcome. That might be a really hard hurdle for some families.
True. And no different from the Prius spouse, as we have read many times on this board. How has it been solved? By demonstrating that the fears are unfounded. And that a Prius, like an EV is basically driven the same way as any other car.
Please note that my wife is the one who commutes in our EV every day (while I ride my bike approximately the same distance). She knows nothing about cars or electricity or physics. She has many skills and much knowledge - just not in these areas. She just wants to get to and from work (about 40 miles RT) every day without hassle. Ask her what her favorite thing is about driving an EV. And when she finally figures out that you're talking to her, she'll tell you that it is NOT having to go to the gas station. Ever. She doesn't even remember what it was like. In eight years of commuting 40 miles per day, she has NEVER been to the gas station. That just about makes her giddy. So the spouse hurdle in my family became a spouse party.
When people approach her to ask about the car, she barely knows the answers and is often stumped. She doesn't know how far it'll go, nor does she know the top speed. She doesn't know those answers for the Prius either. And doesn't need to know for either car. I've printed up a sheet for her to hand out in these case. And while she has learned a LOT since we started driving EVs, she prefers to just get in and drive. She doesn't care what technology is doing it, though she knows what makes her happy. And not going to the gas station makes her happy.
Has she ever not made it to work or back in eight years of commuting every day? No. Are there outlets every mile on the side of the road? No. Does she remember to plug it in every day? No. I'm sure that some day something will go wrong. It always does. We've had both the EV and the Prius not start in the morning because the doors were left open. We dealt with it. Five minutes on the battery charger, and we were off to the races.
My wife has always wanted a rare, expensive car. Never in her wildest dreams did she think it would come in the form of a low-end baby SUV. But hey, I can't think of too many other daily drivers that are more rare. There are probably about 300 of them running around in the world right now. Sigh.
Anyway... thought I'd share my scary spouse story.
That was good....and hopefully will be required reading before too long.
Did you guys see this?
Phoenix Based EV Mobile Charging Service Will Help Stranded Electric Car Drivers – AltTransport: Your Guide to Smarter Ways of Getting Around
For the cost of a tow, you can get a charge to go another 10 miles.
Takes 30 minutes. Fast charger in development.
Maybe the electric car needs a small reserve battery. You need to switch to it and get another 10 miles.
I'm not sure what it'll take to gain acceptance but we'll figure it out.
And shame on the BBC. Where is their journalistic integrity?
By 'small' you mean roughly the size of the Prius battery pack?
I think a 'reserve battery pack' solely implemented in software, might be a useful training device. When you get down to 10 miles of range left, it does something drastic, and you have to take some positive action to fix it. Like the ancient VW bug reserve gas tank with the lever to change over.
I saw that episode of Top Gear. They smoked the tires off that car! Doing donuts all over the place! Then it died. They got another one, smoked the tires off that one, then the gear box broke. Clearly Top Gear favors high performance ICE cars, otherwise they would of shown it can go from 0-60 in 3 seconds, and handle with the best sports car out there. Their message? POS electric cars...we'll stick with a good old fashioned gas-burning car that'll go 200 mph. I lost alot of respect for Top Gear after that show.
The Tesla Roadster has a range in Range mode of 245 miles if driven without excessive hard acceleration, etc. In Standard mode it uses the middle 80% of the battery pack, for a range of about 185 miles. If it runs out of juice in Standard mode, you can switch to Range mode to access the bottom 10%, or around 25 miles of range. Power will be limited.
This is, for all practical purposes, exactly what you are suggesting. A physically separate reserve battery is not necessary. Just a reserve range that can be switched in when needed. No matter what you do, some folks will always manage to run out of juice, just as some people run out of gas in a car that has a range of 450 miles per tankful.
In the case of the Tesla, there is no reserve if you are already in Range mode, but since that mode shortens battery life, it should be used sparingly; and anyone operating in Range mode should keep an eye on the miles-remaining indicator.
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