Best kit for someone new?

Hey all!

I'm looking into getting a PHEV Prius soon and have done some research about different kits lately, but I was looking to see what the people who actually use them think. My daily commute would be about 20 miles highway, about 22 in the city/slow back roads. I had been looking at either the hymotion or the plug in supply based on features that I have seen, however I know nothing of the kits in practice. Does anybody have a kit that they think would fit the bill? I'd be buying a prius specifically for it. Its not so much a cost issue (although, if my math is correct, it would save me about $200 over the summer/first semester, assuming 5kw/night charge, based on my gas and electric prices).

Any input is much appreciated!

Do you want to drive it in all EV mode as much as possible at highway speed? And you are only trying to decide between Hymotion and PIS?
If so then Plug in supply is the option. ($10,995 for 10kwh)

You cannot go 55 mph in EV with Hymotion. Ever.

You didn't mention it, but another option would be the kit by PICC (Plug In Conversion Corp.) They have highway speed EV. (~$13,500. 6.1 Kwh) I think Carolyn Luscious Garage in SF explains it best

Is there any reason you would not consider a Nissan Leaf instead?

Nope, no reason I wouldn't consider a leaf. I just liked having the fallback of gas power in the event of something going wrong with the batteries, or if I just have a brain fade the night before. Plus, I just kinda like the Prius in general.

Thanks for the links! I hadn't seen the PICC yet, and that looks really nice as well.

If you are buying a Prius and then converting it, one thing to consider is that only the Enginer system works in 2010+ at the moment. Both PICC and Plug-in Supply are working on it though.

I'd wait for the Plug-in Supply's new version of PHEV kit if you have a gen II. They're working on Gen III right now. Since Enginer kit doesn't modify any Toyota programing, I find myself feathering the accelerator just to get 100+mpg. PIS's new version of PHEV suppose to allow a more EV like driving for the Prius, more aggressive EV acceleration, faster speed in EV up to 72mph as appose to 45mph stealth mode.

You have an Enginer kit in a Gen III? What sort of mileage are you getting?

I'm still on my first tank. Right now, I'm at 890miles, 96mpg, fuel gauge just dropped to 2 bibs, DTE 105miles. I can go at least another 200 miles.

I can't speak for this PHEV kits (since I have little interest in them) but keep in mind that under normal circumstances (no PHEV kit), the ICE (internal combustion engine) on 2nd gen Priuses (04-09) must spin at speeds >41 mph. On the 3rd gen, I believe it's 46 mph.

AFAIK, Hymotion and I believe Enginer do nothing to get around this. I don't know that hackery PICC does to get around it. It's just something to keep in mind. The fact that it was even possible to hack around this is (IIRC) a relatively recent development.

Now that you've seen the costs of the kits + a Prius, you sure the cost doesn't matter? As stated at http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p...s/91704-enginer-kit-question.html#post1290368 and by a few other folks such as http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p...91704-enginer-kit-question-4.html#post1297028, it is not worth it, from a strictly financial POV, at least not based on US gas and electricity prices.

The Enginer kit provides 3kw to 4kw of power to the motor. With this added power, you're able to sustain in stealth mode longer. In a stock Gen III Prius with 6 battery bars, you're able to drive maybe .5 miles at the most before it drops to 5 bars. With Enginer kit, you're driving with 7 bars most of the time. You can drive about 2 miles on stealth mode at 40+mpg before the battery drops to 5 bars. Also, a stock Prius will have no chance of driving at 45+mph stealth mode on a flat road. With Enginer kit, there have been rare occasions where I was able to drive at 48mph stealth on a flat road. The RPM shows 995 and MPG shows 9999. Hymotion and Enginer don't modify any programing but since it adds extra electric power to the hybrid system, the ECU will find ways to burn off the excess electricity by shifting the propulsion from ICE to eletric motor.

Can only speak for my self but after speaking to people on forum plus installers and doing my own research only system that makes remote sense from a financial stand point is enginer kit.

Can someone comment on how well PHEV works in hilly terrain? We don't go much above 40 mph on our rural roads, but can't avoid some serious hills to get into town.

With my 10KWh PIS conversion, in mixed mode (pure EV will bog down on serious hills), I would say it will help you get better mileage, but if the hills are long or steep, better to switch to EV or mixed mode when the hills are not part of the equation.

I have some serious hills on my highway commute, but none longer than 2-3mi, so what I do is make sure I am in mixed mode when climbing, and switch to pure EV when downhill or flat.

Thanks scottsim. Our hills are not too long, just a bit steep. However, some times I can plan my course around the highest ones.
I'm not sure I can afford to go for more than 4KW, but mixed mode is ok for me. With every hill climb, there is a descent on the other side. What kind of mileage are you seeing on average and in what climate zone?

You should be fine with 4KWh in mixed mode. I commute from Kelseyville to Clearlake over Mt. Konocti...about 18mi each way, no recharge inbetween (takes about 6KWh to recharge) using EV when its downhill or flat and mixed elsewhere. I have been averaging 80-100mpg. More details here: www.smilingdogsranch.com/priusblog

Scott

That's impressive. We are getting solar array installed now. Next is reviewing the various options for PHEV and learning what fits best for our budget and locale.

Scott, I see that PIS used CALB cells in your setup. They seem to allow the customer to pick between CALB, GBS and ThunderSky.
Did you pick, or is that the default battery for them now?


Do you know if they are limiting the charge current on the regen ?
(scangauge 2 readings?)
I'm picking cells right now, and am worried about the cells getting hurt by repetitive big regen hits.

-Les

I thought they were Thundersky or Chinese Aviation cells...Robb P (PIS) or Kitt here might know more. I do believe the BMS limits the charge current to the cells, and from what I hear the Elithion unit I have may be sub-optimal. Robb has told me in the past that there is not enough data on these cells to determine the safest recharge, but he indicated that going close to empty would most likely not effect their useful life that much.

At the moment, we're shipping Thundersky cells to customers as CALB is pretty expensive per cell. GBS, just a pain to install(Ask Robb or Steve Woodruff from Autobeyours.com)

Charge current is limited based on cell temperature. The most I've ever seen my car regen was roughly 100A.

I wouldn't be worried as long as you have a BMS that's reliable.

Kiet,

Any news on a kit for gen3 prius?

The Enginer kit works well when it works. There have been serious quality issues lately and I actually returned mine after a month of replacing various defective parts. The idea is a good one but they have to get past the quality issues.