<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Sep 21 2007, 08:27 PM) [snapback]515996[/snapback]</div>

I think it's "Hey look at us, we are green, high tech, and more "manly" that those prius wussess"

Most of the public doesn't little little things like "science" and "facts" mar thier impresion of an advertiser. It's all about image, I doubt they are very interested in actually selling either of these vehicles.

Follow these links to wikipedia's entry on the "Halo Vehicle" for more insight, or the "Halo Effect" for an intro to this kind of marketing.

All this recent advertising of concepts, rather than actual vehicles you can buy, isn't just making the Prius supporters crazy. Someone on the big GM forum provided a very fitting summary of the situation, along with some advice...

Another name for "transparent development process" is "engineering by press release." Just shut up and make the car already!

It's propaganda, making vague promises that will be extremely difficult to fulfill. The "series" hybrid will carry a hefty premium compared to the "full" hybrid, similar to the aftermarket augmentation price for Prius. Do those seeing the advertisements really understand that? Do they understand just how complicated making hydrogen readily available and cost-competitive with gas really will be? And what about reliability concerns? The consumer apprehension delay caused by waiting for real-world data impairs large-scale rollout plans for years.

Then there's the issue of Two-Mode. Isn't this series & hydrogen advertising wrecking their own emerging market? It seems to sour the appeal of their upcoming plug-in Vue-Hybrid even before it debuts. And it certainly puts the GM community at odds with each other.

Oh well. At least it gives us quite a bit to discuss.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Greenkeeper @ Sep 21 2007, 09:07 PM) [snapback]516037[/snapback]</div>

I think this ad is focused that people can feel good about driving a BIG GM vehicle knowing that it is OK to burn a bunch of fuel because somewhere someone else in a GM vehicle is burning less or nothing at all. The fact is that the VOLT does not exist and they hydrogen car will make no impact, but this does not matter to most people. As long as they have one small footnote of an excuse to continue to drive gas guzzlers they are happy.

I've heard jokes about gas guzzlers saying that they are glad people drive Prii so that they can drive their gas guzzlers.

By future standards, my PRIUS will probably be considered a gas guzzler.

But for now I cannot afford an electric car, so I have to live with the TOYOTA ads that tells me to be happy driving a PRIUS.

I don't understand the hydrogen hype. Electric cars seem the obvious solution, and the hydrogen fuel cell can only be a colossal waste of time and money. Maybe we should start a whydrogen campaign!? Think again, GM, we're not buying it.

On I-85 S. into Atlanta is a HUGE billboard with a GM advertisment.......GAS FRIENDLY TO GAS FREE.
Everyday I see that and just shake my head. Who do they think they are fooling? None of their cars/trucks/suvs are really that gas friendly ( I don't know of anywhere you can get E-85 for the FLEX-FUEL suv's, and gas free is just a pipe dream.

I like this, I stole it from http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0619-23.htm

Hydrogen isn't the answer. Hey hybrid isn't the answer either but it's closer than hydrogen.

GM's been running multipage ads like these in car magazines like Car and Driver for months.

The ads are designed to get people into the showrooms and inquire about the non-existant cars. Then the salesmen put the pressure on to buy something else while they're there. It's called 'bait-and-switch' and one of the oldest car sales tricks in the book.

It's amazing how GM (and the other domestics) continues to be all about marketing, not product, which is seemingly the complete opposite of how the Japanese brands sell cars. The domestics' mantra has always been that it doesn't matter how shoddy or ill-conceived the product might be, they'll be able to market the hell out of it and that alone will be enough to sell a sufficient amount to turn a profit. The saddest thing about it is that it still works. Hopefully, not quite as well, though. Maybe even get some backlash from people who are wise to such shady, old-school tactics.

It's actually sad watching this whole process of GM going under. They can't build market leading vehicles anymore, just illusions of it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Sep 22 2007, 02:27 AM) [snapback]515996[/snapback]</div>

Here's a solution that costs virtually nothing at all: http://kevinkanny.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/

Why don't people ask themselves why this thing isn't pre-installed in any car?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 22 2007, 01:16 AM) [snapback]516086[/snapback]</div>

As pricy as hydrogen is to make / store NOW (with much of our power comming from $80 + per barrel) I cringe to think how much it will cost as we rapidly approach $100/barrel. A collosal waste of perfectly good petro chemicle. Then, to advertise / brag they're into doing just that thing?

The issue with a vehicle is that you need some sort of portable energy storage. Gasoline has high energy density, but we're familiar with the downsides of that.

Hydrogen has the appeal of being made from any energy source, and being moderately dense in storage. The downside is that it still needs some other energy source to make it and there are losses in the process.

EVs have the battery issue, of course. They're very heavy, and the energy density isn't great.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Sep 22 2007, 02:32 AM) [snapback]516116[/snapback]</div>

Replying to my own reply... I just stumbled across http://www.chevrolet.com/fuelsolutions/. The copy and pictures here and in the various sections (fuel efficiency, E85 ethanol, etc.) are real similar to the aforementioned ads.

I love the Volt concept, but what GM doesn't tell us is how far they are from having a Li-ion battery pack that can turn the concept into reality. To get a better understanding of the status of Li-ion traction batteries, read this:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep07/5490

The next time you have a discussion starting with, "Why didn't they just put a lithium battery into the Prius -- everything uses lithium ion batteries these days..." (I have these conversations all the time at my office), you'll have a factual answer--this always leads to a better understanding all around, and brings reality into the GM "Volt" marketing.

- Doug

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alanh @ 2007 09 22 22:36) [snapback]516454[/snapback]</div>

"Losses in the process"?! Hydrogen is miserably inefficient and insanely expensive. Any energy source that can make hydrogen would be better utilised by generating electricity. Even with century-old battery technology, EVs come out ahead of hydrogen.

Isn't there some sort of law that requires you to actually have the product you are advertising to sell? You can't sell something that doesn't exist. The Volt does not exist. Neither does a hydrogen fuel cell car available for the public to purchase.

I mean...why not advertise levitating cars that run on water?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Topgas @ Sep 22 2007, 05:45 AM) [snapback]516135[/snapback]</div>

You know, they've built such a marketing campaign around the Volt that to not be able to produce it in some form or another would make GM lose all credibility, probably forever.

I think they're going to make it, and if they hit their targets and deadline so that it comes out before a more advanced PHEV Prius I may just buy it.

I really hope they change how it looks, though. :lol: